Is there evidence for networks of abuse?
Has anyone ever brought such a case? Would it stop the thing happening in the first place, or prosecute elders after the event?
You mentined murder earlier but there are specific laws relating to murder. Is there a specific law against three men questioning a woman if she is not being physically confined at the time? Is that sexual harassment? Has anyone tested that view legally? It would be interesting.
But I still think JWs should not be able to discriminate against women or gay people based on gender and sexuality. That is the law of the land already, it's just that churches are for some reason exempt. They shouldn't be. And if they weren't it would solve all sorts of other problems too. I doubt judicial hearings could carry on the way they do if there were women elders during the process. Everything would be different.
sbf: You mentined murder earlier but there are specific laws relating to murder.
Huh? Did I? Please refresh my memory...I don't think I have mentioned murder.
Is there a specific law against three men questioning a woman if she is not being physically confined at the time? Is that sexual harassment?
Yes. It is. Especially when the questioning is sexual in nature. How can it NOT be?
Physical confinement has nothing to do with it...in other words...you are drawing a line in the sand as to where and how sexual assault is acceptable. By saying..."not being physically confined", you are implying that "she is consenting." That is like saying..."she was wearing a short skirt". You are advocating for implicit consent - defined and determined by those in power.
Sorry it was not murder but rape you mentioned:
Sexual assault is sexual assault. Religion does NOT get a free pass. Rape is rape, regardless of the form it takes or where it happens. The only free passes that it gets are the ones given to it by the victims themselves.
If a woman agrees to answer questions about her private life how is she not consenting? Some people choose not to attend, or leave in the middle.
Personally I would get rid of the whole thing. But I don't know why we're isolating this one situation. Men being interrogated is bad too.
If a women agrees to answer questions about her private life how is she not consenting? - SBF
There is significant psychological coercion.
If a women agrees to answer questions about her private life how is she not consenting?
Well...I will not go on and on about this, sbf. This is getting redundant. If you can't grasp that one simple concept of when consent is consent and when it isn't, and how it operates within the JW religion and their judicial process, then we are wasting our time discussing this further.
Can it be prosecuted? Does it break a law? Is the question. I think there's a difference between saying we don't like something and claiming it's illegal.
I've heard many people say it shouldn't be allowed for JWs to "drag their children round the doors - it's abusive". But such comments have rhetorical and possibly moral rather than legal force.
sbf: Can it be prosecuted? Does it break a law?
In the context of work or school, yes. The behaviour breaks the law. How far that legal arm extends...and if those same laws can be applied to a religion...I am not sure.
In school or work you can't be excluded on the basis of sexuality or gender either, but in church it is allowed.
In school and work they can ask you if you have broken the rules. Isn't it just that churches have moral rather than general regulatory rules? And the government allows them to make "moral" rulings.
I think the situation is stupid and wrong but that alone doesn't make it illegal.
As much as I dislike Wt and their bogus BS, in my whole time as a believing JW or from people on here have I heard of groups of pedophiles trying to exploit the situation. Hell even half the witnesses themselves don't even know how it's dealt with.
My husband came up the ranks as an elder quite quickly, 5 years, and not even raised a jw or has a single family member in the Borg.
He had heard stories about the elders:
1) the personal sexual questions the elders asked sisters (not brothers for some reason) during a JC
2) looking through peoples music CDs and movie DVDs
He found that hard to believe until an elder took him on a "shepherding call" and started checking their CDs and DVDs until my husband called him on it> That elder said he was trained to do it by other elders. Another elder found the CDs/DVDs locked up and wondered what they hiding.
My husband brought a JC to a screeching halt when they starting quizzing a sister who had confessed to fornication, was not repentant, and was going to be df'd but the most senior elder starting asking very personal questions about her sexual activities. He just stood up and said he would not be part of it, he would not vote her to be df'd and they would have to start all over................the sister was df'd and the poor elder did not get his jollies that time.
My husband found this in 3 different congregations and he refused to be part of it...but he started realizing his silence made him part of it...so he gave the PO his secret books and stepped aside. The PO said that he couldn't do that, but my husband said, well, you don't want me on the stage, I won't get on the stage (hard to force the school overseer to do that.
He says it was the best thing he ever did, step aside, and then just stop going at all. It has been 15 years and he are both happier than ever.