Is there evidence for networks of abuse?
I couldn't imagine this network existing. It seems so improbable for a lot of reasons. Mainly because being a witness is no small commitment. All that work just to have access to children? What a miserable life if true.
If you ask me it's not beyond the realms of possibility ...nothing would shock me anymore!
Let's face it the borg 3 men quizzing a lone woman about sexual matters etc was acceptable and not deemed abuse till some of us woke up and got out. ...so God knows what else we missed spotting lol
An interesting thought. When I was active I was in one congo that had two male newbies come in around the same time. As I recall, they were baptized at the same assembly. One was the most sexually active person I've ever met. He'd starting having sex with his mom when he was pre-schooler. Even though he was single, he screwed several times a day, married and unmarried sisters, brothers (he was truly bisexual), but he especially liked young girls. He made his living as a private hairdresser who went into people's homes in order to work on their hair. He really was like 2 Tim. 3:6 says. Most publishers, and even the elders, saw him as very lovable. In fact the elders reproved, rather than DFed him time and again. Finally they had to DF him, after he'd broken up marriages and made many young teen virgin girls hot-to-trot, eventually the most powerful elder's 12-year old daughter. From what I heard, he really was a great lover. Many sisters said it was the best sex they'd ever had. One even abandoned her husband and kids to run off with him a while. The sisters used to get together and compare notes on the guy. One elder whose attractive wife he failed to seduce called him a stud.
The other guy came in and right after his baptism, married a really cute, but very dumb, single sister who'd had a background of sexual abuse as a girl. She had a very cute 5-year old daughter. Right after their marriage they moved away, and some years later it came out that the guy was having sex regularly with the young girl, in fact, all through her childhood and teen years. Then he dumped them both and took off.
So your idea couldn't help but make me think of these two since they came in together. They even studied with the same pioneer-elder who was quite oblivious of modern culture (ultra loyal, ex-missionary, big-shot ex-bethelite, truly in JWland). The congo was on a basic level very friendly and thus had frequent low-key picnics, get togethers, dinners, etc., so these two guys were often together at them. That congo in particular went out of its way to love bomb those studying, so these guys were always invited to the social events. Whether they planned all this as established pedophiles I do not know. This was before the internet, but I understand that now there are pedo-chatrooms where these people can get together and plan their attacks. So maybe you are onto something here. It's certainly worth pursuing, but other than the anecdotes like mine, how would you collect the info to do so?
Slimboyfat O.P." Is there evidence for networks of abuse?
The Rebel (A) when I was leaving the W.T, I mentiond with supportive evidence to a " friend" elder child molestation problems in the organisation, his defensive and emotional reply " would I be in an organisation like that? My reply was " you are"
What I learnt from that conversation was how easy it was for this " friend" elder to deny all the evidence I mentiond. So whilst I found your O.P sensational and not supported by evidence, the question is worth being asked.
Personally I believe any organisation that is so secret and un-cooperative with its policies on child abuse as the Watchtower could be a prime target for such networks to exist. This is why I am glad the figures on child molesters in the organisation have been revealed and are no longer secret. I am also sure your question " Is there evidence of networks of abuse" is a question those conducting royal commission enquirers , and police forces who investigate child molestation in the W.T organisation are also concerned about.
@careful, I think that's one of the most proposterous stories I have read in this board, ... Have you considered writing for adult fantasy magazines?
Slimboyfact, I do not find your proposition, that there are "networks" of pedophiles who target the JWs, at all improbable. Evidence for it, though, would be something that would be hard to come by.
In fact, it would not surprise me one little bit if investigative units of some kind have had their eye on the WTS for some time now. Of course the JWs and the WTS are being scrutinized and watched for that exact activity - being targeted by pedophile networks. Police investigative units are pretty sophisticated when it comes to tracking down pedophile rings and there is no way that the WTS has managed to fly under that radar.
On another note, and somewhat related, forums like this are targeted by pedophiles/predators all the time. This is a prime environment to find victims - by people's own admissions, they have already been groomed. And, without a doubt, individual pedophiles/predators are quite aware, now that the JWs have hit the news, that there is an environment to take advantage of - both within the JWs and in places where exJWs hang out.
Someone had said that they would doubt that a pedo would go to all the trouble of being a JW "just to access children". Yes, they would. They would do that and more. In fact, becoming a JW to access children is probably a lot less work than becoming, for example, a hockey coach.
*to add - how many of the Australian cases did Toole et al, claim had convictions/allegations of pedophile activity before they became JWs? It was quite a few, wasn't it? And, those were just the ones they knew about...
Lostandadrift: Let's face it the borg 3 men quizzing a lone woman about sexual matters etc was acceptable and not deemed abuse till some of us woke up and got out. ...so God knows what else we missed spotting lol
This is so true. The ordinary JW has little knowledge of their legal rights and obligations under the "law of the land". They know so little about "the world" - and have been deliberately kept in the dark, that they don't even know when a law has been broken. They only know the law of the WTS. They have deliberately been made unaware and vulnerable.
Is that against the law? Has the procedure been changed?
An elder in our congregation *a chatty Cathy type) was sent down to help run a congregation where all the elders were removed (Brownsville). The whole body had been involved in child pornography. We weren't aware of this when we visited the congregation in Brownsville (before talking to first elder). It was a father and a son conducting the Sunday meeting (from another nearby congregation) attended by us, another visiting couple and 3 old ladies in a building that could house 75 people. We asked where everyone was but not a word, nada. Then we visited the first elder at his winter home in Florida and learned the rest of the story. The elder body were all involved, either related, good friends, covering the other elders asses.
So can it happen, has it happened, has it been covered up, yes.
Kramer, believe what you want. It really happened. If you look at my other posts and comments, they are all real. Regardless of your personal feelings about God, the Bible, etc., the situation in 2 Tim. that I cited reflects a historical aspect of early Christianity. Perhaps you were not exposed to the wild swinging lifestyle of the 1960-1980s, but it was indeed real, and it made inroads into the Witness world.
slimboyfat: Is that against the law? Has the procedure been changed?
I am assuming you are referring to "3 elders questioning a woman about sexual matters".
I don't know about law in other places...but, if that happened in any other environment (work, education, etc...) where I live, sexual harassment charges could definitely be investigated. It is a clear violation of human rights and could, indeed, fall under sexual harassment.
I cannot say definitively, because I don't think it has ever been pursued in a court of law, and, I am not a lawyer...but, I am familiar with harassment laws as they apply to the workplace - and there could very well be human rights laws being broken when 3 men question a woman about sexual matters. That is sexually assaultive, regardless of the environment.