Download Raymond Franz PDF Books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom

by Tenacious 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • steve2
    steve2

    Illegal is illegal. The woman who owns the copyright has made it perfectly clear.

    All else is special pleading.

    Saying what a dead person would have wanted is hardly a legal argument - but it might be enough to salve a conscience from "breaking in" and stealing stuff. And saying it is "vital" information is another way of arguing in favour of stealing something.

    Why is intellectual property treated differently? Why is it easier to steal something that is not yours if it inhabits the internet and not a physical property? If Ray Franz had really wanted them to be downloaded free of charge, he would have made it crystal clear in his will, as would Cynthia.

  • azor
    azor

    The Wt. Organization could not have kept this off the shelf better. When is it to long? 1 year, 2 years, 5 years? This was not her work. She obviously can't get it done. I have no problem paying for it as I'm sure others don't either. It's just not available and there is no eta on its avaliablity either.

  • xelder
    xelder

    I will be happy to pay when the lady gets it done. However,It's great that there are places to download these vital books. I have sent them out when needed, I sleep fine.

  • Tenacious
    Tenacious

    If Ray Franz had really wanted them to be downloaded free of charge, he would have made it crystal clear in his will, as would Cynthia.

    In his last years I don't believe Ray was concerned with the distributing of his information but rather that it was available.

    Saying what a dead person would have wanted is hardly a legal argument - but it might be enough to salve a conscience from "breaking in" and stealing stuff. And saying it is "vital" information is another way of arguing in favour of stealing something.

    It's clearly obvious you have not read both of Ray's books, otherwise, you would know how Ray and Nestor K. felt about the spreading of this 'vital' information. I'm going to go out on a limb to say you've never downloaded anything illegal, or have you?

    Your insinuations and argument is flawed. But hey, freedom of speech, right?

  • steve2
    steve2

    Your insinuations and argument is flawed. But hey, freedom of speech, right?

    Ray is dead, as is Cynthia. Ray was not a man who believed in spreading the "message" at any cost. Indeed, he sometimes expressed concern about some of the more outspoken former Witnesses and their tactics.

    In my communication with him when Crisis of Conscience was first published (mid-80s) and I volunteered to distribute the book in Australasia on his behalf, he was happy to have the cost of printing the book covered because it did entail considerable cost to him. Ever thought of that, Tenacious? He could not afford to give them away.

    Saying "it's clearly obvious [I] have not read both Ray's books" is superfluous and adds nothing to your argument. it is special pleading. BTW, I have read both books.

    But that is by the by because the central argument is neither Ray nor Cynthia own the copyright - and that is the main point which is hardly flawed.

    Also to be clear, Tenacious, I have not insinuated anything - I have actually come right out and said it: It is illegal to download Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Will my words stop people downloading it? Hardly. Will people disagree with my support of the copyright owner? Yes. But if something is wrong, disagreeing over whether it is wrong doesn't make it right. In law, a hard copy book and its internet equivalent (sometimes referred to as "intellectual property") are the same, although the means of stealing one may be different from the means of stealing the other.

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    Thank goodness for pirates! That's how I got these two books the first time. Let's face it, Ray and Cynthia are dead... We need these book out in the public and regardless of how much some people complain about the so called "intellectual property". No one here will end piracy!

    Besides, at this point we actually need a new GB member to pull a Ray Franz exit and spill the beans with new juicy details.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    It isn't a dichotomy of, "either this book is available OR people won't leave the cult".

    There are many, many works that help people leave the cult, some free and some not.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Thank you rebel8 for expressing a valid view on the topic. I agree. Currently, there is a wealth of free-to-view and download material about jw.org. Look at the Australian Royal Commission into the organization and sites such as this one and jwfacts.com.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I have to give kudos to Tenacious for his comment on page 3 of this thread. Copyrights are important. This is no ordinary book. You can't find it in a library or book store and you can't really order it through the proper channels right now. But so many people get out of the religion after getting and reading CRISIS that it should be readily available to them. It makes that much of a difference to people even 33 years after initial publication.

    I don't have my copies anymore. I made sure people who needed them got them. If the current copyright holders don't get it out there, find it whatever way you must when someone needs to read it.

    This isn't quite a life-and-death argument like the price of epi-pens (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/epipen-price-hike-prompts-us-families-buy-drug/story?id=41769704)

    ....but some people will feel it's just as important to a small group of people. I am one of those people.

  • Chook
    Chook
    If an apostle wrote a behind the seen tell all, I'm sure the average Christian would like a peek

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