For me it wasn't apostates initially although that came much later. It first started quite innocently with a question from a work colleague about the divorce rate of JWs. I initially searched the mags for a couple of weeks and was unable to find anything. Although I had a feeling what I was about to read wasn't going to be favourable, I decided to google it. I thought if Wt didn't want me going to an apostate site then they themselves should of printed something. Initially I was surprised at how quickly I found a direct answer to my question. BTW jwfacts was my first brush with direct apostacy. With in a few weeks the cards were falling and 18 months later I walked out of the Hall for good.
Did you ever have a discussion with an apostate that helped your journey out.
by jwfacts 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Sail Away
This:
"or did you make your mind up to leave prior to becoming aware of any "apostate" information?"
It took me about six weeks to weigh all the information I had to consider after 42 years of being an all-in JW, and I simply walked away.
Then I read JWFacts, Crisis of Conscience and The God Delusion by Dawkins, all in about two weeks, confirming my decision to choose family over religion was right.
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wozza
Never spoke to anyone as I was obedient (grrrrr) but many years ago while working on "security" at the assemblies I remember in Adelaide some protesters with placards out the front of the assembly location and thinking that they seemed passionate enough but I then put it down to demonic craziness like the WTS wanted us to believe ,but the memory stuck .
And again whilst patrolling the isles during an assembly I saw an older couple with photo copies of old watchtower and awakes in their hands rushing to their seats after a break ,and it seemed their eyes were a little crazy like born agains that we would meet out witnessing ,but it did leave an impression that they had something strongly on their minds and we would watch them closely. This I would recall many times over the years, and helped me find all the old literature I could find to look back on JW history ,not just the sanitized version of their history the WTS gives the drones.
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jwfacts
Great answers, keep them coming.
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konceptual99
I didn't have any specific face to face discussions with anyone but I would say that there several people did "speak" to me through three routes.
One was Ray Franz through CoC and ISOCF. These were critical books in helping me develop the freedom of thought to question the GB and organisation.
The second was jwfacts.com. This was and remains the most important and comprehensive source of unbiased and well researched material on JW teachings and history. It provides a wealth of content that presents the truth about the truth. I cannot thank Paul enough for putting in the hard work it must take to collate and maintain this resource.
The third is this site. This is where I have been able to discuss my changing thoughts, have open debate and receive support in coming to terms with my loss of faith and realisation that the truth is anything but that.
Since then I have found other routes for conversation such as FB and reddit but the above three are by far and away the most important virtual ways of having conversations with those already awake.
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_Morpheus
Like you, jwfacts, i had several encounters over the years growing up as jw with "apostates".
One, when i was about 17, really stands out. I wad in "field service" with a very dear old "sister", she would have been in her late 80's at the time, although able to walk well (if slowly) and still sharp of mind. We knocked on a door and the youngish man (mid 30's) who answered proceded to launch into a rant about how it was all all a lie and how she (the older "sister") was still a slave (she was black) etc etc... The older "sister" i suppose had heard it all before and was very calm in stark contrast to the man at the door. That delayed my exit by many years, frankly.
When i was at bethel there were always "apostates" (mr coffee among them) ranting near headquarters. Never gave them a second look. It was obvious that we had the truth since we were important enough to protest!
Over the years at various district conventions there were protests, usually small, anywhere from one or two up to maybe 10 people. Signs and chants etc etc... for the record these protests were in Richmond VA and reading PA. Totally useless. Even when i was an MS/elder and working as an attendant assigned to watch them it never phased me.
What ultimately did have a huge impact was a young man who was of another christain denomination that a fellow witness wanted me to study with. I wasnt particularly interested, even at that point, in studying with people. I was an elder and had a full plate with a wofe and 2 kids. A study was extra work that i didnt need or want. However i agreeded to meet the young man (he was in his early 20's and i my late 30's at that time). Upon further review he was simply reverse witnessing and i quickely saw that, but he was very nice and willing to have reasonable 'personal' discussions, not just repeating his mantras after i repeated wt mantras. It was real exchange of ideas. It gave me room to think... it also lead me to google search and to show up here on this web site.
It was discussions here and reading information on the JWfacts website that eventually let me get free. As i began to explore the doubts that i had always had after seeing things at bethel and as an elder i saw fairly quickly that the truth was anything but. Realizing and accepting are two different things, and being able to finally act took much longer, but that was the start.
the "militant" tactics were less than useless. They kept le around longer than i otherwise may have, but if it made some angry "apostate" feel better than i hope it helped them. In the end i cannot say enough about calm and friendly discussions that allow for free thought and the anonymity that the internet allows as factors in me being able to grow past watchtowerisum.
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jwfacts
"militant" tactics were less than useless ... but if it made some angry "apostate" feel better than i hope it helped them.
Interesting way to look at it.
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tepidpoultry
I have to add Louise' (Katie Kitten's) "Stand Up For Jehovah" Youtube series for providing some much needed intelligent humor when it was most needed,
As was brought out, in contrast angry ranting just plays into the Watch Tower's character​izations,
:0)
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David_Jay
I never read, met, spoke with, saw, or heard anything from an "apostate" ever during my entire time as a JW. They played no part in my waking up or leaving.
It was the late 1980s and early 1990s for me, so reading things from apostates required reading their books or printed newsletters or whatever they used back then. I had heard of a book written by an "evil apostate" from an elder who said someone tried to get him to read it, but never saw the book myself or could tell you the title.
After leaving I would end up looking for ex-JWs in order to compare experiences mostly, but I got immediately involved with family, community centers, groups, old friends, etc. after breaking away and that was my support.
I did try to get involved with an exJW group early on, but it was controlled and run like a Kingdom Hall. It was a small message board group (I think it began as a simple BBS for those familiar with that) with public gatherings, there was so much suspicion. You could talk about leaving the JWs and it was highly encouraged that you use words like "evil cult" and publicly name names of those who hurt you. But I think the moderators were ex-elders who still wanted to be elders and run things like elders.
There was a purge too. People who had left the Watchtower and joined other churches or Christian groups were targeted and told that only atheists could be accepted. Mention the Bible or religion in a favorable light and the board moderators would remove your message, begin handing out demerits (three strikes and you were out), and eventually witch hunts dissolved everything as the moderators got power hungry. This was when you still had to insert an AOL disc into your computer and use your phone line to get on the Internet. The Blackberry was released shortly thereafter.
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Ucantnome
No.