Ten Commandments in Courthouse

by rem 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • rem
    rem

    This just makes me sick:

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=9&u=/ap/20030817/ap_on_re_us/ten_commandments_rally_2

    Crowd Rallies for Ten Commandments Judge

    Sun Aug 17, 8:51 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
    By BOB JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer

    MONTGOMERY, Ala. - Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore told thousands of supporters that he would be guilty of treason if he didn't fight to keep a monument of the Ten Commandments in the rotunda of the state judicial building.

    Drawing cheers and shouts of "amen" at a rally Saturday, Moore said his crusade to keep the 5,300-pound monument was not about bolstering his own political career, as some have claimed.

    "Let's get this straight. It's about the acknowledgment of God," Moore said in front of the Alabama Capitol.

    About the acknowledgment of which god? Oh, you mean the god that wrote this:

    I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

    It is quite obvious that the Ten Commandments monument is promoting a specific god - The Judaeo-Christian god. This is in direct violation of the principle of separation of church and state. I'm sure Justice Moore wouldn't be as excited about defending a monument of the Hindu Vedas. I think it's quite arrogant how Christian Fundamentalists seem to believe that they are the only religion in America. As if this country were built on Christian Fundamentalist values.

    Buses and vans from as far away as California brought Moore supporters to Montgomery for an enthusiastic rally on a hot and muggy morning. Evangelist Jerry Falwell and former presidential candidate Alan Keyes (news - web sites) were among a half-dozen speakers urging the crowd to take back America from what Keyes described as the "unruly courts."

    You can be pretty sure a person is a loony if Jerry Falwell is supporting him.

    The rally was organized after U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson in Montgomery ordered Moore to remove the monument from the judicial building by Wednesday. Thompson and a three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) have ruled that the monument is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion by government.

    Not just any religion or god - the Christian religion and god.

    Police would not estimate the size of the crowd, which appeared to be several thousand people, possibly as many as 10,000.

    That's a lot of nuts in one area!

    Falwell said Moore is right to defy Thompson's order if he believes he is obeying God.
    "Civil disobedience is the right of all men when we believe breaking man's law is needed to preserve God's law," Falwell said.

    Which god's law? Oh, yeah, your god's law... as if your religion and god is the only one out there. This is as unamerican as it gets.

    Evelyn Bradley of Norwalk, Calif., said she made the trip because "the Ten Commandments is the most precious and most important thing in my life right now."

    LOL! The Ten Commandments are the most precious and important thing in his life??? This guy obviously lacks any sense. And which Ten Commandments are so precious to him? Does he realize there are multiple versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible? Probably not.

    Let's take a look at the popular version of the Ten Commandments from Exodus 20:2-17 and see what is so damn special about them:

    1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the
    land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall
    have no other gods before Me.

    So this guy is really stoked about the Judeo-Christian god who murdered millions of people in the Old Testament. He's really excited about the xenophobic message which states that all other religions, gods and ways of life are not acceptable. That's the great American attitude we're all striving for!

    2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image -
    any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above,
    orthat is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
    under the earth; you shall not bow down to them
    nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a
    jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathersupon
    the children to the third and fourth generations of
    those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands,
    to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

    Seems to me this Judge is practically worshiping this monument - a carved image. He's breaking the very commandment he's defending. Still, though, nothing of great wisdom here. Nothing yet that would make me believe the Ten Commandments could be the "most precious and most important thing" in anyone's life!

    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in
    vain.

    Which god? Oh, yeah Jehovah (and Justice Moore doesn't see how this promotes one religion or god over another?) Nothing precious yet.

    4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

    Wow! Great advice from god. Does Justic Moore even do this? If not, then why does he think this commandment is so special - a foundation of our justice system?

    5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days
    may be long upon the land which the Lord your
    God is giving you.

    Good advice, but it's pretty obvious. Not of 'god' quality. Anyway, some mothers and fathers don't deserve to be honored, and honoring your parents does not guarantee long life. Nothing precious yet.

    6. You shall not murder.

    This is a good commandment, but it's nothing you don't see in every other culture in the world and in history. Unfortunately, the god who authored this commandment could not even keep it.

    7. You shall not commit adultry.

    The government should stay out of our bedrooms. This is not what American justice is about.

    8. You shall not steal.

    Yay! Another good one. So far we have two decent commandments! Though, there is nothing here to tell me it was authored by god... this is pretty much what we call common knowledge.

    9. You shall not bear false witness against your
    neighbor.

    Agreed, but why not get at something more fundamental, such as "do not lie"? This commandment is unnecessarily narrow-minded. Even the drafters of the US Constitution did a better job of coming up with general principles rather than narrowly defined rules. How can a document authored by man be superior to one authored by god?

    10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house; You
    shall not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his male
    servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his
    donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

    This is as unamerican as it gets. Coveting is what keeps our economy going. Keep the government out of what goes on in our heads. Only actions, such as stealing, should be legislated and have any room in our justice system. Nothing precious here.

    So out of Ten Commandments, there were actually two that were any good. And they were just common sense! I didn't see anything in there that could be seen as the "most precious and most important thing" in any rational person's life! Now back to the article:

    "No judge has the right to tell us we can't post them," said Bradley, 73.

    Actually, he does. This is one of those 'foundations of the US Justice system' that you supposedly care about.

    After the rally hundreds of people walked several blocks to the judicial building, where they lined up to view the monument inside. Some debated with about 35 atheists holding a counterprotest across the street.
    "Personally I believe in science and reason and the only way you can have freedom of religion is to have separation of church and state," said Todd Kinley, a research scientist from Huntsville participating in the counterprotest.

    Yay! Some reason amongst these fundamentalist loonies.

    rem

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Ironic isn't it... these same people would take to the streets protesting if another religion tried to impose their faith on them.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Ah quit yer whinin' Rem, or I'll send a ghost to haunt you.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    I'm sure Justice Moore wouldn't be as excited about defending a monument of the Hindu Vedas.

    Probably not, but at the same time, if he had a monument of the Hindu Vedas in his courtroom, I doubt there would be any controversy. It would be seen as his personal preference.

    Sort of in the same ways that some public schools can teach courses in witchcraft, or can have courses in which students are required to act out features of Islamic worship, but if they simulated a Christian communion service, people would be up in arms over it.

    It's completely politically correct to blend religion with government today, as long as the religion involved isn't Christianity.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Jerry fallwell claims to have 70 million supporters just like him, who worship the ten commandments, the state of israel and the bible. Maybe they should call their part of the country new israel, new jerusalem or some such.

    SS

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Over time the US has become more and more religiously diverse. When this was first starting, the fundamentalist Christians would try to support such monuments saying that they were concerned about protecting the rights of all religions.

    Over time they have started to show their true colors. Now they are blatantly saying that they want America to be a *Christian* nation. This is just wrong... so much for tolerance and diversity.

    One nice thing about all of this is that as the right-wingers start to show their true colors they are becoming marginalized with the rest of the nut cases.

    One nice thing about America... Intolerance will not be tolerated!

  • rem
    rem

    Neon,

    Probably not, but at the same time, if he had a monument of the Hindu Vedas in his courtroom, I doubt there would be any controversy. It would be seen as his personal preference.

    There is a fine line here. I can understand having pieces of art in a public building that may have religious overtones - even Christian ones. The problem is that this judge has taken it too far. If it's just art, then he should have no problem removing it if it offends someone, but instead he has turned the monument into an idol. He has stated that it is not about art, but about "acknowledging god". That is worship and should have no place on government property in my opinion. I would feel the same way if a Hindu installed a monument to the Vedas and refused to remove it for the same reasons. Heck, I'd feel the same way if any religious monument or statue were installed without proof that it was purely art.

    I don't think Justice Moore is capable of being fair and impartial with his blatant disrespect of the principle of separation of church and state.

    rem

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    One nice thing about all of this is that as the right-wingers start to show their true colors they are becoming marginalized with the rest of the nut cases.
    One nice thing about America... Intolerance will not be tolerated!

    And the above is an example of tolerance?

    Seems to me, to be "tolerant" means to accept the left's view only.

  • rem
    rem

    Here's an article from today:

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/20/ten.commandments/index.html

    Supporters of the monument continue holding round-the-clock candlelight prayer vigils outside the judicial building. Several preachers led a group of about three dozen people in prayer.

    Obviously no one's right to worship is being denied... they are practically worshipping this monument on the public property outside the courthouse. What this does prove is that this monument is not a neutral piece of art, but it is a religious item that clearly breaks the separation of Church and state. It's not even a neutral religious monument - it is dedicated to a specific deity and religion.

    One man said, "I think if you stand for this country, this whole country was founded on 'In God We Trust.' I think that if you were to put it in those terms, I think, yeah, everyone should defy it [the court order]."

    LOL. Maybe if our country was founded in 1956!

    rem

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    One nice thing about America... Intolerance will not be tolerated!

    And the above is an example of tolerance?

    The was intended to let everyone know that the statement was a joke and should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Perhaps I should not have said "right-wingers", perhaps I should have said "The Religiously Intolerant". Either way, I was referring to the Judge Moore types... they have no tolerance for anything that is not like themselves... that is why they are trying to make America a "Christian" nation, instead of being tolerant of all religions. I have no problem with Christians in general, I just don't like the ones who condemn non-Christians and who try to impose their religion on others... for instance, by constructing a monument in an institute of law that says: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" on the very first line. That, if anything, is intolerance.

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