God expresses his perplexity at his own creation

by slimboyfat 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  slimboyfat

  Just got to share this, Zizek at his very best.

  Explaining how the traditional view of the ransom makes no sense and reverts Christianity to paganism where God is subject to a superior notion of justice. How the injunction from Jesus to hate mother, father, brothers and sisters is really a call for a non-hierarchical society, of which the Holy Spirit is a symbol. How the book of Job is a profoundly anti-ideological statement of the chaotic nature of existence, which is a mystery even to God. And how this realisation in turn explains the real meaning of the crucifixion. The Christian God is the only God to experience atheism directly himself (on the cross, "my God why have you forsaken me?"). And how we need Christianity now more than ever. And Christniary is the only route to genuine atheism. Brilliant analysis.

  https://youtu.be/e5bvEJXFFeY
  
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  slimboyfat

  Full interview here:

  https://youtu.be/sQ3g2zS6Tuk
  
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  sparrowdown

  Yes, he raises some important theo/philosophical questions all of which I will admit I myself have mused over since the spell WT had over me broke and my faith broke along with it and I finally gave myself permission to give deep thought to these questions. His conclusions are interesting and simliar to the ones I came to but he really shouldn't do blow before interviews - lol that last bit was joke.
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  cofty

  the injunction from Jesus to hate mother, father, brothers and sisters is really a call for a non-hierarchical society

  What has hating your brothers and sisters got to do with rejecting hierarchy? Sibling relationships are the exact opposite of that. Zizek is talking bullshit.

  Jesus' words are much more simple than that. He meant what he said - reject your fucking family and follow me.

  Jesus was a egocentric cult leader who demanded the same loyalty as every cult leader before and since. The rejection of the family - our most intimate relationships - in favour of the cult is the ultimate test.

  If he existed at all, Jesus was both deluded and dangerous.

  The NT is very explicit about the reason for Jesus' death. It is ugly and pagan and it does leave god looking like a narcissist. Conflating Job with the meaning of the cross is nonsense.

  P.S. What is wrong with Zizek?
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  steve2

  The Christian God is the only God to experience atheism directly himself (on the cross, "my God why have you forsaken me?").

  Athiesm? Or questioning his God's intentions?

  When we humans believe others have "forsaken" us, we are not implying they do not exist but rather that they do exist but don't care.
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  slimboyfat

  Sometimes families can be a refuge from outside authorities (religious, secular, legal, educational, whatever). And sometimes vice versa. Sometimes a good family can save someone from a bad religious authority. And sometimes a religious authority can function as a refuge from a bad family environment. Life is complicated. There are of course many cases where becoming a JW has been a net benefit to a person's life. It's not all one or their other. On a more fundamental level I think Zizek is saying that the subversion of family structure opens the way for egalitarian and non-hierarchical forms of relationship. Incidentally our modern conception of sibling relationships may be egalitarian, but that was probably not the case among first century Jews who had a very strong sense of hierarchy, including primogeniture.
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  Ruby456

  in other words what Jesus was saying was be an individual. Isn't this this what we are saying today? Jesus was ahead of his time or else individuality isn't as modern an invention as we like to think. Zizek takes a fresh look at what we often take for granted. I have at least three of his books and they have gotten me out of tight spots in which I could not see my way ahead at all!!!!

  He is controversial but think how events such as that happened during the time of Jesus and before would have broken up families anyway. So what Jesus was really saying is live with it and pick up your torture stake/cross and get on with living. Be like me - I have not lost perspective, I have a goal that satisfies me and that leads to affirmation - you will have this too if you follow this path. Jesus is definitely worthy of following!!!! while keeping one's individuality too at the same time...
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  Ruby456

  hmmm...just listening to How Christianity has to be rescued from falling into paganism

  Zizek makes paganism the bad guys to highlight his own communism while forgetting that paganism actually developed the most fully fledged atheism I have ever come across!!!!! and this sort of atheism was also practiced in Hindhuism and Buddhism too!!! so obviously Zizek wants to make particular points about communism through Christianity. Overall I think his arguments are strong if we leave radical leftwing communism aside and focus on what he says about egalitarianism.
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  cofty

  I think Zizek is saying that the subversion of family structure opens the way for egalitarian and non-hierarchical forms of relationship

  Mao Zedong thought likewise. That led to the deaths of 45 million during the "Great Leap Forward". Anybody who advocates the "subversion of the family structure" is either a moral imbecile or a moral monster.
  
  
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  deegee

  I think Zizek is saying that the subversion of family structure opens the way for egalitarian and non-hierarchical forms of relationship ----------SBF

  Subverting the family structure can have wide-ranging health and social consequences for children.

  Children need assuring, safe, stable, nurturing relationships and environments. These essentials for childhood can have a positive impact on a broad range of health problems and on the development of skills that will help children reach their full potential:

  https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/about_ace.html

  Adverse environments early in life have lasting consequences for children’s health and development:

  http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2017/04/adverse-childhood.aspx

  A child’s “family, social, and community assets” were critical to helping him or her thrive despite challenges:

  http://bigthink.com/stefani-cox/adverse-childhood-experiences-can-be-overcome-with-help.amp

  Children need attachment and nurturing relationships, family who listen and respond patiently to them in a supportive way, and pay attention to their physical and emotional needs.