Waco Mini-Series on Netflix. Powerful and Scary.

by Simon 33 Replies latest social current

• 

  Simon

  So we binge-watched the WACO mini-series on Netflix.

  Wow, what a powerful and enlightening programme! Even if you think you know what happened, it gives you extra context to it all. It's very well done even if you just want a great drama series, but it's way more than that.

  There are of course some dramatization and slight historical inaccuracies for the purpose of story-telling but it was very informative. I remember it being on the news when it happened but it was coverage from the UK and they certainly left out a lot and gave a lot of false impressions about what was going on and what the government did.

  The power of the government, when misused, is terrifying. They basically murdered women and children. The people who did it should have gotten the electric chair. The most damning part comes right at the end, in the form of a semi-narration by a radio host ... I won't spoil it but it makes clear the government agencies guilt from their thuggish behavior which was repeated over and over with other incidents (such as Ruby Ridge).

  Of course the government, after a "thorough" investigation, found that the government did no wrong.
  

  It seems very telling that the government seemed very keen to harass and force shootouts with certain groups (white christian types) whereas other groups were able to operate with impunity. Definitely seemed like some "cultural warfare" happening there.

  What's scary is that even now, you have government agencies willing to misuse power. As an example, I saw some business owner who was trying to open her hair salon. Simply shutting her down wasn't "enough" for those with power, they also sent child-protective-services to harass her family at home as "retribution". Sick.

  The militarization of the ATF / FBI hasn't just continued, but has filtered down to local police forces. You see these programmes, look at what the FBI has done recently, the incidents that they failed to act and wonder what the point of them really is - they just seem to have become government goons and who knows how many other miscarriages of justice haven't just happened on their watch but have been conducted and covered up by them.

  Watch it, then ask yourself how reasonable it is that the government demand people give up their guns. If that's to happen we need to see justice served on the instruments of government that abuse their power and far, far better controls on those who wield it.
• 

  truth_b_known

  I watched the Waco miniseries myself. I know it sparked quite the conversation within my household. Here was my $0.02.

  It's a "docu-drama". A Hollywood story that uses film as a medium to bring a script to life by actors. The script used information from two biographies - one written by the FBI negotiator and the other by one of the Branch Davidian members.

  I don't want to spoil this series (it really is worth the watch). Here is the balance I brought to the table in my household discussion -

  If everything in the film were true, this whole thing was done on the pretext of a PR piece and not enforcing the law, but there was probable cause to believe a Federal criminal law had been violated. So much so that a Federal District Judge signed a Search Warrant. The shit-show that follows happens because tactics were thrown out the window in exchange for a possible PR perp-walk.

  Ruby Ridge happened in 1992 and Waco happened in 1993. I began my law enforcement career in 1999. I am SWAT certified and have been serving high risk warrants since 2013. The tactics we use now are preventing such incidents from happening. When we such related incidents happening in recent history (such as what just took place in Kentucky) it is clearly because untrained cowboy cops are putting themselves in situations they have no business handling.

  The whole time I watch this docu-drama I cringed and shook my head in disbelief. In the circles I work in we have a saying - "There's a certain Federal, alphabet soup agency, we fondly refer to as 'Famous, But Incompetent.'" I have no doubt that Waco ended with the needless loss of both the lives of private citizens and law enforcement officers.

  I also have the personal experience to know that training and tactics have progressed light years ahead of those events that happened 27 years ago. I also truly believe the government agents involved should have been fired and at a minimum been held civilly liable for their actions. The precedent has been recently set in Texas that they may even be criminally liable for their actions.
• 

  Simon

  I don't think any suspected gun modifications, which was the pretext for the raid, would ever justify an armed assault on a building containing women and children. They could have easily taken people into custody without conflict when they left the compound.

  That a judge signed something is meaningless, as the threshold seems to be pretty much non-existent - they are told something is "so" and sign based on that, without drilling into whether it really is "so" and if the actions that will be taken would be justified. We have recently seen FBI corruption at the highest levels, and if they can target the rich and famous, they can certainly target some nobodies.

  I'm sure some things have improved and that people like to think they have, but I wonder what the reality really is. It seems to easy to just dismiss anything that goes wrong as "rogue individuals" (which sounds like a WTS type excuse for wrong-doing). The system makes it possible for those rogue individuals to exist - why? Because the system is broken.

  Look at any police force and you see serious crimes committed by police officers. Some are thugs. And if you have government agencies tasked with being "the biggest gang in town", it doesn't end well. At some point it becomes a risk for anyone to stand up to them or question things as they are a law unto themselves and can murder and then fabricate any justification for it with relative ease.

  Not everything in the film was 100% true but the things that weren't would have made for a more confusing plot needing pointless extra explanation - such as the negotiator not being there up to the day of the final assault. The gist of it seems to be true as far as I can tell: government heavies over-react, try to flex their muscles, play at war, but lack basic common sense and get a load of people killed.

  As I said, the radio commentator at the end is the damning part, there is no explanation other than that the ATF / FBI were guilty of recklessly endangering lives and were responsible for the women and children being killed.

  Koresh and his followers also carry personal responsibility of course. Stupid, stubborn and weak people. All it would have taken was for one of them to say "no, you're an idiot, we need to get the women and children out" but they didn't (or at least, didn't do it enough - some did leave otherwise the death count could have been far worse).

  The question of what happens when an irresistible force (ATF / FBI) meets an immovable object (stubborn Koresh) is "a complete shit-show and misery". Either side could have prevented it. Both managed to make it happen.
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  the girl next door

  We can keep our 2nd amendment rights forever and have all the guns we want, go off grid, create compounds, etc. If the federal government uses the military to carry out its wishes you will see Waco repeated over and over.

  The sobering question everyone needs to ask themselves is would making a stand against the government work?

  There are examples when citizens have come together in force and made a difference. But once escalated to violence? See Waco.

  Owning guns and being willing to use them against the government or military forces brings no comfort to most of us who own guns. It should not even be the compelling reason to have guns.

  That is a battle that if ever got off the ground would end up one way. Every citizen dead or hiding including women and children.

  The bigger the force assembled against the US government the bigger the response would be. The US government is so adept at controlling the masses they see fit to exercise their techniques regularly on the rest of the world.

  Freedom is an illusion. That is why 90% of US citizens have placed themselves under house arrest for 3 months, many allowing themselves to be driven into poverty and likely homelessness when it becomes clear they will never pay their debt for not paying rent or mortgage, many who applied for financial assistance and will never see a dime.
• 

  Simon

  The sobering question everyone needs to ask themselves is would making a stand against the government work?

  For the individuals? No, it wouldn't.

  But what having an armed populace does do is prevent the kind of abuse of power that has been repeated multiple times in history, where thousands or even millions die because the government knows they cannot fight back. It prevents the same thing happening on a much larger scale.

  People imagine there was something wrong with or "special" about the Nazis. There wasn't. They were just normal people. The only difference between then and now is a combination of opportunity and environment. There would be people who would do what Nazis did and more if society didn't constrain them. We see the Chinese doing it today - torturing members of certain groups and suppressing rights.

  Confiscating people's arms is often a pre-cursor to abuse if there isn't a strong democracy and other protections. The ultimate protection is power and citizens should have power over their government, not vice-versa. Law enforcement should be applying moral laws that a society has approved, not seeking out battles to show their might.
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  greenhornet

  We will see more of this happening. Almost every state in the USA has these anti gun red flag laws now. Canada has made most long guns illegal now over night. They are coming for your guns Simon.
• 

  Simon

  Canada has made most long guns illegal now over night

  Yeah, apparently the solution to someone shooting people with an illegal weapon is to make them really really illegal, because then the criminals will say "oh, we can't use these anymore"

  Trudeau is a fucking idiot. It's a wonder he hasn't thought to make Covid "illegal" or apply a "Covid tax" in order to reduce it. They are his goto policies for most things.
  
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  greenhornet

  Here is an older video. Substitute USA for Canada, this is what Trudeau wants for his Canada https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoFKskvSq4 The problem is Canada does not have the equivalence of our 2 A. So you guys have band them over night and there is not much you can do about it.
• 

  the girl next door

  Ouch.

  God bless 'Merica
• 

  BluesBrother

  Is this the series that had Michael Shannon as the FBI negotiator?

  If so I watched it weekly on UK tv a while back. As a series I thought it was brilliant and the final episode was so moving and me feel both gutted and angry at the same time.

  Interesting to read truth-be-known's post and personal knowledge of such things. I hope he is right in saying that training and tactics have progressed a lot since then.