The ransom makes no sense

by BourneIdentity 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BourneIdentity

    If mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as Jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life? If he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever. It's all bullshit, or Jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice. No way would that mother fucker wait 2000 years and still not do anything to end all the suffering. Any decent mother fucker would have done it immediately. Fuck all that bullshit.

  • the girl next door
    the girl next door

    Jesus was just a simple Jewish man made into God by the writings of men and attributed to John. Yes, just that gospel.

    Redemption was a concept used to control. Just as simple salvation endures, so do the concepts created by men according to 60,000 sects of "Christianity" which should probably be called "Paulanity".

  • RolRod

    It makes perfect sense, not the JW way, but the Biblical way. I guess one would question why it took some 5,000 years between Adam falls to Jesus birth for God to do anything? Is God responsible for all the suffering in the world? Did he create evil? No, man created evil. There's a purpose for it all, just because you don't understand it doesn't make it any less true. God has a plan, and He's in control, and guess what? Thing will get even worse before it gets better. But unlike the JW's who believe that salvation comes ONLY via their theological lenses, every man, woman and child who ever lived will live again, because that's what the ransom is all about. Jesus died "a ransom for all".


  • BourneIdentity


    God is responsible for all the suffering in the world. He had already created disease and death and it was on full display for Adam and Eve to see all the animals go through it. Let's be clear, he did this before Adam and Eve sinned. What kind of a "loving" God, would create something just to get cancer, suffer and die? If he had any ounce of love in his fucking self, he would allow animals and humans to live to an old age and simply die of old age, not have children suffer and die of cancer. Sick fuck!

  • dubstepped

    God had a half price sale on justice that day. Two perfect humans lost perfection. It only took one, and god had to bring in a ringer in his own superhuman son, to somehow create justice. If I was Satan I'd feel like I got ripped off. I mean, first I'm the devil and I totally got more people on my side than on his over millenia, so who really won here? And second, god couldn't even win his own game fair and square. Weak sauce there god.

  • MightyV8

    If you are going to believe the garden of Eden story, the very first thing God teaches adam and eve after getting kicked out is warfare.

    God shows them spinning swords...


    "holy shit! eve look at those spinny things bet they could do some damage"


    "Wow they spin really fast, but adam you can never get them"


    "yeah i know.....but it gives me some great ideas"

    God showed man how to kill!

  • waton
    look at those spinny things

    Mv8, they looked actually like batons of cheerleaders, or propellers on a Merlin v12. what were they for ?

    to allow for the ransom . because had A&E be able to get at the Tree of Life, (not a forbidden fruit bsw), we would have been ok, no ransom, human sacrifice needed, next Question:

    Why did these first, near perfect people not talk the talking and listening snake into sneaking in and grab one of these "everlasting life" fruit, or a bite with seeds in them, and start a bio- pharma-business?

  • Finkelstein

    Or mere men made up the story of the Jesus god as an expression of ancient mythology entailing all that he was going to do for mankind. He also said to his followers while he was living that many would not experience death.

    ummmm ??? something smells fishy.

  • cofty

    It is only the Watchtower that focuses on Jesus' death as a 'ransom'. Russell taught that Jesus died to redeem Adam who would be saved. We were all saved - or given a second chance - by proxy. Rutherford cancelled Adam's redemption and changed it into the value of the perfect life that Adam forfeited.

    Ransom is only one of a number of metaphors that NT writers used to describe the effect of Jesus' death. It was a reference to the idea of the emancipation of a slave. Like most metaphors they make less sense the more literally you try to apply them. Primarily early christians - and modern ones - see Jesus' death in terms of vicarious punishment. In other words his punishment on the cross was the punishment christians deserve for their sins. It was this concept that Nelson Barbour rejected leading to a split with Russell.

    Why did Jesus die?

    JW - to buy back the perfect life that Adam lost by his disobedience.
    Christian - He took my punishment for my sins. 'By his stripes we were healed'.

  • phoenixrising

    Spinning swords. Funny I never thought of it but how did Adam know what a sword was?

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