Either God’s non-existence or His majesty

by venus 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Confusedalot

    "means all scriptures have misrepresented Him"

    "When I tried to copy this aspect of Him I found how much heart-break I was spared of."

    Lets say I take a similar position, then without scripture and hearsay, what would I base my position on God on?

    Are there some representative scripture I can use?

    Thank you for taking time to explain.

  • venus


    Religions under the guise of divine authorization taught certain things as good and others as bad, thus in effect labeled them as “truth.”

    Those “teachings” for whatever holy they may be, cannot match the uncertainties and ever changing possibilities in Life. What is “real” cannot be relegated into a shoe box full of code of conduct, commandments and laws.

    In Nature/Life, morality does not exist. In the “office world” it exists as a façade for an ulterior purpose: Whether that is to gain heaven, to support our belief to be “special” or “rightful” among the rest or some other "reason."
    In Nature/Life, questions do not exist. Humans prisoners of their own minds, have twisted good old curiosity into the frenzy of asking “why?” out of everything, as if an intellectual verbal answer is enough.
    Curiosity does not ask “why.” Curiosity observes with appreciation the uniqueness of Life. It is through that acknowledgement how everything is answered without asking a single question; for every answer comes at the right time. It is the knowing of learning through our own experiences.

    Humans have coined the phrase: “Learn from your own mistakes.” This is a tunnel view.
    When we separate our experiences in Life between “mistakes” and what is “right,” we forsake the opportunity to live fully in Life in exchange of some comfortable fear, designed to live within the boundaries of the shoe box offered by our society through our conditioned mind.

    Instead, learn from your experiences. That learning only applies to your own path. However, what is to share to all, is to BE the type of person that is ever curious to discover Life, beyond the shoe box.

    That type of invaluable teaching cannot be put into words or a “master class.” That “teaching” spreads through the winds of warm human relationships.
    Nothing to teach, nothing to say. Just BE.

    Those winds of relationship, have the potential of turning into Hurricanes and positively affecting many, without a business plan, special funding or a proselytizing effort.

    What is natural is “good.” What is “good” is what IS.

    In brief: This is natural—when someone acts in such a way that makes me happy/unhappy, for me it is a lesson on how I am to act towards others (which means God doesn’t have to tell us what is right and wrong; hence no scripture is needed)

  • venus


    You also asked: “Without scripture and hearsay, what would I base my position on God on?

    You don’t need to base your position on anything. That is how the design is—each one should formulate his own principle in view of the common good. When you find both order & disorder, lower species & humans with innovative powers, earth filled with living beings & rest of the universe with no living forms ….simultaneously existing, it silently teaches each one of us should have his own conclusions about life and principles to lead that life.

    If I were God, I would have created the universe and earth exactly the same way as it is now.

  • Confusedalot

    Thanks venus,

    Your reply is insightful and I do agree, and draw great value from it, but I struggle to see how this gives me a foundation for belief in the existence of God. Your reply can be true without God? That is what is tearing me apart at the moment! Leaving organized religion has left me empty in regards the existence of the almighty.

    I know I may be asking you to prove the existence of God (that is what I feel I need at the moment) and that is unreasonable of me, but I'm starting to feel, and fear that the concept of God may be a man made "shoe box".

    You use the word "God" with confidence (at this stage I envy that) but how did you receive it? Hearsay? Shoe box?

    Apologies for drawing you into my struggle.

  • venus


    You are asking me to prove the existence of God, but it is UNNECESSARY for the following reasons:

    1) God Himself wants to remain unidentified—a fact we can discern from His refusal to rectify all the conflicted scriptures.

    2) God has not told anybody to worship Him; it is in the scriptures (obviously written by mere humans) that we see things such as worship.

    3) Just like scriptures contain both right and wrong answers, they have got something right with regard to God in Mathew 5:44-48. A careful and impartial reading of those verses show that God, like sun, does not receive anything, but only gives; and He neither want nor receive worship, but want us to become worship-worthy by being a giver with no expectation from others.

    4) In some ancient languages, worship literally means egolessness, living in the now … etc. which means worshipfully engaging in whatever you do with 100% involvement. Those who have done this do not feel time passing as though living in heaven (compare Luke 7:21)

  • Confusedalot


    Thank you for explaining.

    It feels like we are talking different languages at the moment. You looked to me like an informed, thoughtful and learned person (as I am sure you are), that's why posted questions in reply to your posts.

    The problem is that I need explanations from step one at the moment, and you keep explaining from step two. The position from where you are explaining is one where you already believe there is a God. And you make sense of his actions and inaction in an imaginative way that brings relief and answers and for that I am thankful.

    Problem is that I am stuck at step one at the moment: Asking why invoke God, why invoke a christian God(new testament quotes), why use the word God in the first place? Why invoke a God that does not want to be identified (you seem to have identified him though)?

    When we use biblical references, how do we determine which are misinterpretations, and which are not? Surely there must be some foundation from where we can analyse these texts objectively. And it is this foundation I am interested in. Does it come from hearsay (religion,ancient texts and modern texts etc.), personal religious experience, divine communication etc?

    Let me try and make it as clear as possible:

    1. there may or may not be a higher being
    2. identity and belief in God (using the word God)
    3. understanding his/her/its actions
    4. etc.

    I need help getting to step 2 from step 1. (I was at 2, 3, 4 etc. for a long time. Being born into JW they made me believe there is no step 1)

    I fear that you have been told there is a God. I think it would be more acceptable to me if you told me you had a spiritual experience, or God talked to you, because then I can wait and hope to have a similar experience.

    How have you identified a God that is not involved in the actions/lives of men and does not want to be Identified? Are your abilities of discernment greater than his of concealment?

    Thank you for taking time to reply, and be sure I am not trying to be negative or argumentative. And I hope I haven't caused offence. I am in a bad place at the moment, my joking on other threads is just a cover as I am deeply troubled/confused regarding God and religion at the moment.

  • venus


    There is no first step because situation is like this: You are already on a road. There is no point in finding out from where the road started because you will never find it as something always precedes something into eternity.

    Now refresh your mind with what I wrote in 4th point: “In some ancient languages, worship literally means egolessness, living in the now … etc. which means worshipfully engaging in whatever you do with 100% involvement. Those who have done this do not feel time passing as though living in heaven (compare Luke 7:21)

    When I practiced this, I found it better than my life in a religious world. That means this suits me.

    What suits you may be something else which obviously you need to find out.

  • venus


    It is Luke 17:21, not 7:21.

  • smiddy3

    Venus when I read your views on GOD ,I don`t see any difference with a person who believes in ET / Aliens ,the same arguments seem to apply .

    Are they both the same in your view?

    Do you think GOD started life on earth and then left us to our own devices ? without intervening at any time ?

    Alternatively do you think Alien life Forms ET, started life on earth and has left us to work out our own destiny.

    I`m just curious and look forward to your response.

  • venus


    I do not know about ETs. I believe God exists and also believe that He has not revealed any details about Him. Philosophers spent lifetimes to decipher nature and the mystery of life. Religious practitioners had focused on life and pronounced prescriptions for happy life. It appears as an unending quest. However, there is excitement in the quest. Methods are different; but the goal is same: ­ happiness. I feel God as Father would enjoy seeing His children becoming worship-worthy by doing selfless service for common good.

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