What is sin?

by sinboi 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Confusedalot


    Some people choose to believe that God exists but that he is not interventionist. He just created the world then went AWOL (deism).

    I had a discussion about the quoted belief recently, and I could not grasp the position, because it starts with a belief (the source of which I could not Identify, other than personal choice or human influence), and then a explanation. I don't want to leave JW and then fall into a situation where I follow people again, or use my imagination.

    Thanks for the excerpt, much appreciated!

  • sinboi

    hey, I just realised I am judging god...on what grounds do I consider what is evil and what is merciful...

    A father who hates drugs will forbid his son to meet with drugs addicts. He will chase away drug addicts from his house...that yhwh is doing the same with the pagan believers. In his case, he needs to kill them..He cannot afford to let anyone influence the israelites.

    As for the babies...it may not be evil to kill them. Who is going to take care of them? What if they grow up and find out that the israelites killed their parents?

    Just like my country...we have capital judgement over here. I totally support the death sentence for drug traffickers and murderers. But there are many around the globe who cry against death sentence. Who is right? My government or those against the death sentence?

    But when I think of killing babies..scenes of japanese soldiers snatching babies from their mom, throw it up in the air and piece it with a bayonet...EVIL!!! Scenes of ISIS decapicating unbelievers --- evil. worshippers of the devil!

    I am extremely confused...dont think about it anymore...will end up in a mental hospital....

  • sinboi

    I know that if I am:

    1) an Israelite living at that time, I would think yhwh is right.YHWH IS GREAT!

    2) a pagan worshipper at that time --these people are evil... their god is a devil!

    3) still a jw - what am I doing? questioning god? remember what he said "my tots are not your tots. Neither are my ways your ways". Must stop thinking...satan is casting doubts in my mind...

    4) Now that I am none of the above three - very easy..DON'T F* CARE...

  • punkofnice
    sinny - Now that I am none of the above three - very easy..DON'T F* CARE...

    Good. We got there in the end

  • deegee


    You have certainly been thinking critically and coming to your own conclusions. Wish I were like you when I was 16.

    ".....that yhwh is doing the same with the pagan believers. In his case, he needs to kill them..He cannot afford to let anyone influence the israelites"-------sinboi

    Some things to think about:

    Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the Canaanites could have been avoided?

    God could have invited the native Palestinians into his covenant, given them the same laws he had given the Israelites, and established an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony.

    Instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

    What followed was a series of terrible, bloody battles in which tens of thousands of people died violently. Finally, God pronounced his campaign of genocide a success (Joshua 11:15).

  • deegee


    Some more things to think about:

    It can hardly be a coincidence that every religion which claims God has a chosen people was founded by those who claimed they were the chosen people.

    Here is the likely reaction if God had really revealed his will regarding his chosen people to people other than his chosen:

    Imagine Moses coming down fom the mountain following his first conversation with God:

    MOSES: “O Israel, I have received the word of God, and the Chosen People have been revealed unto me!”

    THE PEOPLE: “Tell us what God has decreed in His wisdom!”

    MOSES : “Erm, well, actually…”

    THE PEOPLE : “Go on…”

    MOSES : ” …it’s the Philistines. I know, I know, but God is what He is, and He says the Philistines are his chosen people. What can you do?”

    THE PEOPLE : “So what does this mean for us?”

    MOSES : “Ah. Thought you’d ask that one. Since we are not God’s chosen, and in fact rank rather far down His divine scale, it means that we have to give all our land and possessions over to the Philistines, even unto our women, yea, even unto our goats, and we must devote our lives to the glory of God and His chosen people, basically by becoming their slaves through all eternity. So says the Lord.”

    THE PEOPLE : “Sod that, we’re converting to Egyptian Polytheism! ”

    The absurdity of this scenario is obvious and common sense alone would indicate that a religion based on such a message which was revealed by God to everyone, not just the chosen, will not get very far.

    But that in itself is, of course, instructive on the nature of religion - if God does have a chosen people (as many believers do), why then would he himself never ever tell anybody else about it but they themselves?

    Surely it would be to the advantage of his chosen if God made it plain to all other races, cultures etc just who the good guys were?

    Yet this has never happened.


  • OnTheWayOut

    Sin is an invention of religion, designed to make people feel guilty toward God for violating some man-made rules supposedly from said God. Religion then provides a way for people to feel less guilty by donating their lives, or at least their money, to the religion.

    I cannot pretend and answer within your hypothetical situation.

    There are laws and morals outside of religion. You may break the law. You may act immorally. But to sin, you need religion.

  • sinboi

    Deegee, maybe you can sense it...I said I can simply don't f* care about it. But can I? After a game of basketball, we went to the food ctr to eat. My friend asked me what I want. I told him anything. He came back with chicken noodles soup but with a few pieces of chicken blood cubes in it. I wanted to force myself to eat the blood cubes...but I can't. I tell myself to put it in my mouth...juz bite a little...I still can't.....

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    @deegee, excellent questions and points!


    I still can't

    Good, it means you're human :-)

    Adapting your worldview is life shocking as you and most of us here are (or have been) experiencing.

    Your thoughts and emotions need time to catch up with this new situation. Take it step by step, day by day. Don't force yourself to be, think or feel anything you're not ready for yet.

    Over time you'll discover new questions for yourself to answer and things you never thought about before.

    At your age it will be double the challenge: while you are discovering yourself and life in general (like all teenagers go through) you're also challenged by discovering completely new universe: a universe outside the JW religious fundamentalist narrative.

    You'll discover that life outside JW is not at all what JW say it is.

    You'll discover that life is worth living either with or without religion, with or without god(s).

    You'll discover that what you think may be just as true as what anyone else thinks.

    You'll discover JW claims to know THE TRUTH work very polarizing, but that it's very well possible (and advantageous) to freely discuss, agree, agree to disagree, and be friends with people who believe completely different things than you do.

    You'll discover the world isn't black and white.

    You'll discover life is beautiful, wonderful, and very much worth living!

    Keep looking, keep asking, keep thinking, keep wondering, keep appreciating.

    And be cautious for (no, run from!) everyone who claims his or her opinions or beliefs are THE truth.

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