Dear Female ExJWs

by Simon 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon
    Simon

    Judging by some forum comments and tweets, it seems like some female exJW's feel they are being ignored or excluded from things. I thought I'd share my views. This can only go well, right? What could possibly go wrong ...

    First, I think it's unfair to post and judge people based on a private chat shared without permission and posted without context. When we talk privately, we don't intend our words to have a wider audience and so are less guarded in our speech and less careful with our language. We may use shortcuts, sometimes based on previous communication with the people involved, such that someone coming to the messages without that context could easily get the wrong impression ... especially if they were keen to get the wrong impression.

    Takeaway: Don't share private communication in an attempt to embarrass or ruin someone's reputation unless it's something truly egregious and obvious.

    Stop imagining that every male exJW is an ex-elder. Yea, I'm a white male exJW but no, I was not an elder, never had any power or position in the religion and never wanted any. I was treated badly by the elders just like you, so stop trying to lump me in with them. I think our hall was fairly average - we had about 100-120 publishers so say 50-60 males. Of those, about 6 were elders and were elders for years or decades.

    Basically, the number of males who are ever elders is a small percentage. Stop trying to make out that certain behaviour is todo with being a white male ex-elder when it's only to do with the "elder" part. Don't label people based on innate characteristics and call them evil and then expect them to be friendly and welcoming, and not think you're nuts.

    Likewise, we can do without the "I've been counselled" crap if we take part in a discussion and happen to disagree. That's what discussion is all about, having different viewpoints. Again, don't complain about not being included if, when you are, you turn round and kick us in the balls.

    No one owes you anything, just like you don't owe us anything. If you don't like that someone else has been invited on a panel, boo hoo. You're on the internet - make your own video, invite someone else who you want to talk to and hear from. There are no gatekeepers holding you back.

    You may not realize this but as a man, interacting with women anywhere for anything has always been a bit of a minefield and in 2022 things are getting worse, not better. Sometimes, it's just easier and safer not to. So please factor that in before you start judging and labelling people - some of us have had run-ins with what I call "crazy bitches" and so we think twice before reaching out. It's far easier and less problematic to message another guy online than a female. That's just the world we live in. So maybe you were excluded but not because of you.

    If someone genuinely is being misogynistic then of course you should call them out and I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you if you do ... and if they were. But if you ring the fire alarm I expect there to be a fire, or at least meaningful smoke. If you expect me to strain to maybe see that something could be taken a certain way if you read it with a certain interpretation, I'm not going to be impressed and I'm not going to care.

    IMO it's pretty simple. There were those in power who treated others badly. Don't be so quick to "tilt at windmills". The vast majority of us were never elders, and even many that were, who left, did so because they were good guys who followed their conscience to do the right thing.

    There were high-and-mighty elder types of course, who desired and sought prominence and power and then misused it. I understand as much as anyone how the thought of them makes you feel angry. All the feelings come back and we want to set things straight. But save it for them, they are easy to identify. Don't see every male exJW as a stand-in for them.

    By now, I expect there is a mob forming and grabbing torches and pitchforks ... I'm kidding, women never know where tools are kept (boom-tish), but c'mon, we're not your enemy and we're all stronger together.

    If you genuinely believe that you're being excluded from some channel and would like to be included, why not ask them nicely rather than attacking and calling names and launching into accusations?

    "Hey, I loved that last video you did but did you ever think you may be missing out on a larger audience? I think there are probably be lots of women like me who would like to see some women included on the panel next time. I'd be happy to volunteer or can suggest some good people you could ask if you're interested?"

    I doubt anyone would respond to something like that with "sorry, no chicks" ...

    I'm sure I've offended many, but I'm trying to help even if it's just to start a discussion to clear the air.

  • NonCoinCollector
    NonCoinCollector
    Don't share private communication...

    Unless a crime is being talked about, sharing private communication is walking an ethical tightrope. On one hand we have seen leaked private communication of Lloyd Evans. On another hand we have seen other private chats leaked as well. It is a tricky subject to manage.

  • Jehalapeno
    Jehalapeno

    Thanks, Simon. It needed to be said.

  • Simon
    Simon
    Unless a crime is being talked about, sharing private communication is walking an ethical tightrope. On one hand we have seen leaked private communication of Lloyd Evans. On another hand we have seen other private chats leaked as well. It is a tricky subject to manage.

    My view is that typically it's wrong. Unless the private messages show someone is utterly conning people with a very different public persona and is really behaving unmistakably badly, I think it's difficult to justify. Especially if it relies on some strained interpretation to see something "wrong" ... if you tilt your head sideways.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    Funnily enough I think in this particular instance the person who organized this video is doing a bit of healing. It will take time, but I think it's moving in a positive direction and Cappytan has been smoothing the way forward, in my opinion. Thank you, if you see this.

    I've also noticed quite a few male exjws very specifically featuring female exjw discussing subjects relevent to us (Jake, I'm looking at you).

    HOW-ever......I understand why this is a prickly subject for many of us and I'm afraid there has been a bit of a history of that kind of over bearing i-know-best behaviour from *some* exjw men....but they are by far the minority and usually repeat offenders.

  • KIMSILVIO
    KIMSILVIO

    If I can’t make a panel on my own merit, I don’t want to be there. I do not believe in feminism as it is sold to the public. I believe true equality comes from earning your way, not to “balance the books” so to speak.

    I hate the fact that men feel that dealing with women can be a mine field, although I accept that in some cases this can be the case. Conversely, as with men not all bring elders, not all women are a mind field.

    Not all people who make ignorant, careless or uninformed comments are racist, bigots of phobics.

    Not all men are misogynistic and not all women are emotional basket cases.

    It is my opinion that the whole world, and this community included, needs to take a chill pill and either agree to disagree, ignore behaviour that doesn’t fit the values and beliefs, (yes it is possible to scroll on without commenting!) hear others opinions with curiosity rather than “prepare for rebuttal or attack”, be quick to apologise when we are wrong, not readily compare others behaviour to traits of the cult, and realise that just like other people, we have faults.

    We all make mistakes and none of us like being called names. Perhaps there is merit in the saying “treat others the way you would like to be treated”.

    Now let me get off my soap box and go and find my pitch fork 😊

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    The whole LE saga is so unprecedented and way out there that there are bound to be a plethora of different beliefs and ways to approach it, even amongst those who are united in finding it repulsive. What makes this case unique is that whilst the subject is claiming he’s suicidal, at the same time he is taunting people and sending a team of lawyers after them. I don’t personally care about being on a panel because this subject has been adequately covered and if you don’t think it has been, then go do your own and you’ll find plenty of sympathetic voices to tweet it out.

    What I take issue with is the policing of how to respond to LE. This man is a maniac narcissistic asswipe who keeps coming at people with knives sharpened, but we’re to be worried about his mental state? If one doesn’t like the approach some are taking, then it’s OK to just scroll by and not take part in it. I find it hard to take counsel on this from the same people who have made multiple videos and livestreams about him that are taking issue with a tweet or post that is quickly forgotten and buried by time.

    But I digress because much of this is a moot point. I say this because by the end of this month or in early July this fool will throw something outrageous out there and this process resets itself.

  • Jehalapeno
    Jehalapeno

    Las Malvinas: I saw what I think you’re referring to and it sounds more like introspection and a person second-guessing their own actions rather than someone policing the actions of others. Sounded like they were just having a private chat with others about how they were feeling.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    In the past, I've been an admin/mod/owner of one forum or another, so I can sympathize with Simon having to tackle an issue like this before it gets out of hand. It can be thankless work, but sitting back and saying nothing can be worse. A potential lose/lose situation. I'd like to add that I appreciate the work he's done keeping this forum going for more than twenty years. That's impressive.

    And I say that because I have the luxury of being able to ignore controversial discussions or posts if I choose. I've mellowed a lot over the years and have learned which drama I need to deal with and which drama I can safely ignore. I generally try to treat people well and be as easygoing as I can, with the understanding that I can't please everyone but I can decide who to engage. It's not always the best approach, but it keeps my stress levels very low. And I am pretty happy with that.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    I feel like I've missed out on all the action here.

    Probably best.....

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