where this this data come from? can you provide a link?
Why the Governing Body caught a frightful fright
by Saintbertholdt 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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WireRider
What if? What if the GB fakes the money? A tax exempt org. What's the downside?
If for purely manipulative reasons they fake their financial filings and total value just as much as they fake their cult head count. Propaganda control. The Watchtower does not file anything accidentally.
It's how/why they control.
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Beth Sarim
Cayman Islands can be a haven for money laundering. -
WireRider
What in the world makes anyone believe the Watchtower reports real numbers about anything? The propaganda department is well staffed with (free) business, marketing, and accountant people.
The "numbers" all have to look good to maintain any kind of legitimacy. I will be anyone that their total attendance count, number of "time cards", income, and total value isn't anywhere close to the truth. It is a lie to the "congregations" to keep it going, and why would they ever tell a government they don't have any respect for the truth?
I doesn't it really matters what forms people find. They know you will find them. They plant information. I would. I would use you.
They count on the rebellion to spread these lies.
Yes - they have volunteers to read all this stuff and report back to the GB on the social media trends of their fake media - and yes that means their fraudulent filings. Who would ever go after them? The IRS? They are all fake filings for propaganda of sustainability and growth. It's fake.
There is no link. There is no information that they do not want you to see. This is a multi-million dollar corporation that strictly controls WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE.
They could truly be penniless for all anyone knows. All a charade to keep people believing they are real and keep giving money. How else would you end the WATCHTOWER? Faking it until the very end to get money?
What if they did end? How would it go? Millions in they back or just stop answering the phones?
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JeffT
Wire rider, what you are describing is tax fraud, a federal felony. It is the one thing that will get the government involved in church affairs. Both New York and Pennsylvania require the submission of audited financial statements with the renewal of corporate registration. https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/nonprofit-audit-guide/state-law-audit-requirements
So far as I know, these submissions are not a public record, but no CPA is going to want to go to jail for lying about the WTBS' finances, which is what would happen to them. Google Enron and Arthur Anderson for an example.
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brandnew
@wirerider.......whoaaaa......far out....totally groovy .....n stuff....
I need a nap....g nite
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konceptual99
What about the fact that WT hides behind not just one corporation but multiple legal entities?
They move money and assets around to protect it from insurance claims and prying eyes. Even in the UK where the charity commission financials are a matter of public record it is hard to get a true picture of things so trying to do the same for the tens of US corps let alone offshore entities is nigh on impossible surely.
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Vidiot
"The GB is caught in a frightful fright...
They all need to catch an overseas flight...
The money is waiting, just sit tight...
Then disappear with it in the dark of the night..."
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Saintbertholdt
NewYork44M
Hi there, you can look at the data at the site citizenaudit.org. Search for: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
where this this data come from? can you provide a link?JeffT,
Hi there JeffT, as you know this is through no fault of my own as the balance sheets of the various Watchtower corporations have never been voluntarily disclosed and information is sparse. Now looking at the data and the inferred data between 1995 and 2015, what does this mean?
I'm sorry, I'm an accountant and this graph is meaningless. It shows twenty-two years, and only has actual numbers for eight of them.
The 1995 to 2014 data as a whole just indicates that the assets of the Pennsylvania corporation have significantly increased over time, or in other words the perceived value and/or quantity of the assets have increased (well according to the Watchtower anyway). I think that it is good to show an illustration/graph of what many on the forum point to frequently. Beyond that the 95 to 2010 data only serves my need to produce rather attractive graphs, even if I say so myself. Did you notice the beautiful colors and shading? Breathtaking.HOWEVER...
The 2011 to 2014 WTBTS of Pennsylvania asset statistics are quite insightful and here's why: You wrote that you are an accountant, so I'm going to assume that you have at least some basic background knowledge of the related field of economics.
As you probably are well aware in macro and micro economics there are many relative measures which give good indications of the economic health of different economic things. These include measures like the basket of common goods (which helps to measure inflationary direction), another one is the Big Mac index and there are other things like the unemployment rate. These are all relative measures and each measure has its own fundamental problems. For example the basket of common goods was originally set up for the nuclear family, but family demographics have changed over time and consumer spending has also changed over the course of time. Another example is the US unemployment rate which assumes that if an unemployed individual no longer actively seeks employment, they are no longer viewed as unemployed. So these are not absolute measures, but relative measures which give an indication of whether inflation or things like unemployment are going up or down.
What is important with relative measures is that the what and the how of the measurement always remains the same (or changes very slowly over time and is then adjusted for). For example, if the people compiling the Big Mac index suddenly started measuring the price of Quarter Pounders instead; or if the basket constituents of the consumer index of a developing country was suddenly and radically changed and the government of that country then declared that the inflation rate miraculously went down, one could reasonably assume that whoever changed these measures were up to the devils business and the result would be that these relative measures would lose their value.So what I am getting at is that without having access to the Pennsylvania corporations balance sheets, the total asset value can be viewed as a relative measure. In other words its an indicator of whether the corporations wealth is expanding or contracting but it is NOT a real measure of the absolute asset value. So how could we know that the measurement is at least consistent? Well my answer is Gerald F. Simons. He is the chief accountant that has signed off on the accounting of the Watchtower corporations for at least the last eight years. I have made some assumptions about Mr. Simons. I have assumed he is reasonable, responsible, prudent and that however he chooses to do the accounting, that he is at least consistent. I make these assumptions based on his length of tenure, his chosen profession and its methodical shift over more than a decade and a half to GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles).
So whats insightful about the 2011 to 2014 statistic? The 15% decline in 2014 that has coincided with the new building projects as well as the increased request for contributions, indicates that the suspicion that the Watchtower is in fact in a financial pickle is not unfounded. The 2014 decrease also bucks the previously available seven years data trend (which includes 1995 to 1998) which shows consistent asset increases. I would argue that it confirms many on the forums long held suspicions .
Footnotes:
1. You wrote: "It also does not include assets held by other corporations, notably all the local Kingdom Halls."
Yes, for example the NY corporation holds over half a billion in assets but information is even more scarce.
2. When Mr. Simons includes the asset value of the new buildings (which is projected to be finished this year I believe), I think my 2016 projected increase will probably turn out to be a rather large underestimation.
And that's that, said the cat in the hat. -
Bugbear
Is there anyone who knows how much JP Morgan has provided with loans against to WBTS with the Brooklyn estate as security? I do believe that after the bankruptcy of Lehman and brothers 2008. JP Morgan took over?
