God is not the creator

by venus 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I share scratchme1010's thoughts. The opening post makes incredible leaps as it jumps to conclusions that are not based on anything at all.

    If your incredible leaps were valid, then let me draw them out to one more inescapable conclusion.

    "If every machine primarily proves someone designed it, then a much more complex, wonderful, and living machine with reproductive feature would mean the same: someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed it because effect explains the cause just like harvest explains the sowing (whether you saw sowing or not)."

    This leads to an endless series of "creators." If "someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed [humans]," then
    "someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed [that designer/creator]."

    And it would go on and on, using your own conclusions. Since that is not logical and sensible, the original premise must be flawed.

  • venus
    venus
    OnTheWayOut

    That is what the OP heading means "God is not the Creator", and that is what the concluding verse means: Within each human body, there is a creator.

    OP is not about God The Creator because His non-intervention and non-communication obviously show that He wants to remain unidentified. If the Almighty really wants to get His message across with incontestable clarity He would definitely have various means at His disposal to do so. Using a rain-bow like writing that would appear on the sky at regular interval so that everybody can read in their language would be a too easy job for Him. If He doesn’t do that, then it means He knows everyone knows what is right and wrong, what is beneficial and wasteful which is really the truth because

    1)Everyone knows what action of others make them happy/sorrowful which means everyone knows how they should act towards others.

    2)Some parts of earth is already like paradise which means humans know how to make the whole earth paradise, if they want to.

    3)Some countries have never partaken in any war from their very inception which means other countries know how to go about without war if they really want.

    4)Knowledge of God is not required for anyone to be a good person because all sorts of people are found among both the groups—theists and atheists.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
  • venus
    venus

    Morpheus,

    Reason means the same thing for you and for me. Take out the reason, then we won’t be able to understand anything (let alone creators and The Creator). There's an old saying: "I know I do not see the world as it is, I see the world as I am".

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    That is what the OP heading means "God is not the Creator", and that is what the concluding verse means: Within each human body, there is a creator.

    Um....okay.
    I am not sure what your message here is. You seem to stay speaking in broad philosophical terms. I might be on the same side of the overall issue, but I feel your conclusions are too broad and unsupported:

    • 1)Everyone knows what action of others make them happy/sorrowful which means everyone knows how they should act towards others.

      There are mentally ill people, there are sadists, there are masochists, there are psychopaths. Everyone does not know how they should act toward others.

      2)Some parts of earth is already like paradise which means humans know how to make the whole earth paradise, if they want to.

      There are not agreed upon terms for "paradise." If you mean that untouched soil on remote tropical islands is paradise and I mean that mansions with paved roads must be included, we are already starting down different paths, let alone others' ideas that paradise would include self indulgence of varying types.
      Even agreeing upon what part of earth is most paradise-like (paradisiacal), it doesn't mean we could figure out how to make all parts of the planet like that.

      3)Some countries have never partaken in any war from their very inception which means other countries know how to go about without war if they really want.

      "Countries" don't know anything, including how to go with or without war. If you mean that one country stays out of wars, it doesn't allow for an automatic conclusion that all countries can stay out of war. Philosophically, I tend to agree, but it is not supported.

      4)Knowledge of God is not required for anyone to be a good person because all sorts of people are found among both the groups—theists and atheists.

      I fully agree with that one. It is proven. Opponents will argue on the definition of "good."

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice
    A person in this state of joy is in harmony within

    Cocaine or heroin, probably.

    Raining is good news for an umbrella merchant whereas it’s sorrow for a potter.

    What if it's a pot umbrella?

  • venus
    venus
    Hi OnTheWayOut

    OP points did not make much head way into your intellect because you did not approach them as though hearing it for the first time. When I shared the same with a JW, she came heavily against me as though carrying with her a Hydrogen bomb. When I told her to read it again as though hearing it for the first time, she did it—now she is convinced that JW got their teaching about soul completely wrong, and also shows by her life that she is in no need of a human spiritual feeding program as each human being is a spirit having the same qualities of God just like drop shares the qualities of an ocean.

  • venus
    venus
    OnTheWayOut

    You are wondering about how "mentally ill people, psychopaths, masochist, sadists" know what is right and wrong.

    Let us leave out those who are mentally ill as they can recover from illness after treatment.

    But sadists, criminals, terrorists ...all know that is right and wrong. You give them same treatment they give us--they would resist which shows they know what is wrong.

    Suppose you saw purse belonging to a sadist (or criminal, terrorist ..), and they are not aware of it. You picked it up and drove after them and returned the purse containing money. They would appreciate with so much of joy in their face and would thank you and would even help you in return when you are in need (which means sadists, criminals, terrorists ...all know what is right). I am speaking from my personal experience. A hard-core criminal helped me in return for giving his fallen purse back to him.

  • cofty
    cofty

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