Blood doctrine question

by AuntBee 25 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • Fognomore
    Fognomore

    Hello,

    Many great comments and I thought I would ad mine in an effort to help anyone fully understand the

    " Bloodless" medicine phrase used by so many JW's. My background is an RN in ICU/CCU/ and trauma. I have about 15 years experience in nursing and most of that in critical care. I have worked in a hospital where we had a

    " Bloodless" Surgery Program". I will do my best to clarify what this means and does not mean.

    What is does not mean:

    You are not getting anything special, nothing. Look up the MD and see what his or her experience is and how he or she rates for successful surgeries and infection rates. This is more important than anything. You have to do your own due diligance and not rely upon anyone else to make that decision for you. I have personally seen many JW's steered to Dr's who are below average just because they are on a " blood less surgery and or treatment list. "

    I find the phrase is a "Catch Phrase" used to generate revenue and " steer" the JW's to certain Dr's and hospitals.

    The bloodless medicine coordinator at our hospital had 0 experience and no back ground for the job he held. He was on call and came to the hospital to see his "patients" ( his words not mine.) I find it disturbing that a person with no medical experience at all can even step foot into a hospital and see really sick patients and offer suggestions when he has no idea what the hell he is talking about. As a professional clinician I found it sad that do many JW's looked up to this man as their savior. He looked at labs, charts, and knew their medical background. He has no right to that information, yet many would see him as a professional and gladly give up their right to medical privacy.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Many jws are reluctant to look at the detailed instructions of the WTS regarding blood. They are long and complicated and these jws are afraid they might make the wrong decision so ask the elders or refuse any and all procedures that look blood related.

    For example: how many jws know that it is conscience matter to choose to use hemoglobin-based products (not realizing that some are made with expired stored blood)?

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202006400

    What are my personal decisions?

    Consider the two work sheets on the following pages. Work Sheet 1 lists some of the fractions extracted from blood and how they are commonly used in medicine. Fill in your personal choice as to whether you will accept or will reject the use of each of these fractions.

    RED CELLS HEMOGLOBIN​—33% OF RED CELLS

    A protein that transports

    oxygen throughout the body

    and carbon dioxide to the ․․ I accept

    lungs. Products being hemoglobin

    developed from human or or

    animal hemoglobin could be ․․ I refuse

    used to treat patients with hemoglobin

    acute anemia or massive

    blood loss.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    AuntBee, one of the seminal textbooks on "Blood Management" was co-authored by a JW doctor from Germany:

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6214938441809920/basics-blood-management-dr-petra-seeber-dr-aryeh-shander-inaccuracies-myth

    *I never did finish the critique I started on that texbook

  • steve2
    steve2

    Hello AuntBee,

    None of what is written in JW publications has relevance for emergency medicine where blood is literally the difference between life and death. When an individual suffers a massive loss of blood volume (as happens in a traumatic accident) blood is urgently needed to give the person a decent chance of survival (which is linked to restoring blood volume ASAP. The No Blood doctrine is literally a death warrant to any JW who is in an accident and has lost a significant volume of blood. Blood substitutes do NOT work in emergencies. Notice that almost all JW "experiences" with blood refusal involve elective or planned surgeries.

    JW publications have little, if anything, to say about Accident and Emergency presentations.

  • AuntBee
    AuntBee

    Frognomore - Thank you for sharing your professional based knowledge and experience. Truly astounding and eye opening.

    Bondie - thanks for that additional info, i will follow up and check into that!

    OrphanCrow - Thanks for posting that additional thread.

    Steve2 - Great point about emergency situations from accidents! I imagine the same is true with emergency situations in childbirth

  • Fognomore
    Fognomore

    Hello,

    I agree with Steve2-Overall Blood is used to deliver Oxygen to tissues and organs. Without this, the organs and tissues die. With acute blood loss( Trauma, etc) blood and its clotting factors are the only product that can usually save your life. Their are 2 types ( overall types of blood loss) Chronic and acute. In chronic blood loss the body has a chance to adapt to the lower hemoglobin( to a point), but in acute massive blood loss the body cannot adjust to the loss of the blood quickly enough to save organs and a life. People are regularly allowed to drop to a hemoglobin of around 7.0 before blood is talked about. This varies with clinical presentation and if the patient is unstable hemodynamically or + for an MI ( heart attack) or really really sick. Blood is needed in massive acute blood loss, as there is no other product that can deliver oxygen to tissues and organs. Without this , a person can die as the amount of oxygen delivered is to enough for the body. I have have taken care of people who would not take blood who were both sedated and paralyzed. This was used to lower the metabolic need for oxygen and in turn hopefully save the persons life as long as they were no longer bleeding. In chronic anemia the body has a chance to adjust to the "lows"of the hemoglobin, as long as it happens over an extended period of time- the body can compensate to a large degree. I have had patients with a hemoglobin of 5 who were walking around and not feeling symptoms, although that does not mean their tissues and organs were not compromised. There are products that help increase the volume-LR, 0.9% NS, Albumin, but none of these products can deliver oxygen to dying organs. Procrit is an injection used to stimulate RBC production but is used in chronic anemia. So in a nutshell-

    Blood is the only product that can transport oxygen in acute blood loss anemia and is the only product that can save your life if it comes to that point.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    And this:

    It is of no consequence that the blood is taken into the body through the veins instead of the mouth. Nor does the claim by some that it is not the same as intravenous feeding carry weight. The fact is that it nourishes or sustains the life of the body. In harmony with this is a statement in the book Hemorrhage and Transfusion, by George W. Crile, A.M., M.D., who quotes a letter from Denys, French physician and early researcher in the field of transfusions. It says: ‘In performing transfusion it is nothing else than nourishing by a shorter road than ordinary – that is to say, placing in the veins blood all made in place of taking food which only turns to blood after several changes.’” (The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1961, p. 558)

    What the Society does not tell its readers, is that this doctor, Jean Baptiste Denys, lived in the 17th century. (It turns out that Dr. Denys never said the words attributed to him by the Watchtower). Medical science long ago abandoned this idea. Later, the Society tried to appeal to another authority, the Dane Thomas Bartholin, but now they at least admit he also lived in the 17th century. Why has the WTS found no support for this peculiar idea among more recent medical experts? Because there are none. Not even the medical doctors who are themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses will ruin their reputation by supporting this claim.

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    An interesting article here AuntBee by one who knows.

    "The Tort of Misrepresentation Of Blood Transfusions by Jehovah`s Witnesses" by Kerry louderback Wood


  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Marked.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Excellent thread contributions. Marking

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