I don't wish to change the theme of this thread - but I am responding to Doug. If any others wish to comment - I'd be interested in reading.
As for the discrepancy between women and men, could you give me the scripture references for the law stating that they had to scream? I'd like to read those in context before I respond to your question. - Doug
This is the thread's address which shows the scriptures involved:
... http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=78924de3ef510fcc183177ba4e150c66&lat=990913777&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ejehovahs%2dwitness%2ecom%2fforum%2fthread%2easp%3fid%3d5947
If this doesn't print properly, this is my original post:
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Posted: Oct 8, 2000
Rape Response Revisited
I have previously brought up the inferred insult to women done by the Bible, the WTBTS, and sometimes society in general - that rape is a woman's - not a man's - problem to deal with.
QUESTION: Is it anywhere brought out in the WTBTS's teachings everyone who is raped must scream? Is it anywhere brought out in print the required response for men being raped?
At what age is a young girl put upon - or now freed of - the responsibilty of screaming? The age to submit/fight the rapist? 8? 10? 15? 18?
At what age is a young boy going to be questioned about whether he liked oral/anal intercourse - just as girls are?
Again, when a man is raped by another man, or group of men (or women), where is a printed WTBTS required response put forth - as it is done for women? For that matter, where is the principle, or law, found in the Bible for a man to scream during rape to be found innocent of fornication?
I cannot recall any discussion anywhere on the Biblical response for men in time of rape. How odd and manlike. Would a just God only concede that girls/women are raped and must respond - even to the point of death for her virginity? Should not males protect their virginity with their deaths also? Particularily is this odd in the reality that a man, or teenage boy, is much closer in strength and size to a male rapist than the average woman or girl.
Thanks to Path,(bold added by me) the following are WTBTS responses quoting their interpretation of the Mosiac Law for Christians (however, we are always told by the WTBTS that we're not under the Mosiac Law.)
*** w64 1/15 63-4 Questions from Readers ***
ó According to the Bible at Deuteronomy 22:23-27, an Israelite engaged girl threatened with rape was required to scream. What is the position of a Christian woman today if faced with a similar situation? Is she to scream even if an attacker threatens her life with a weapon?—M. U., United States.
According to God’s law an Israelite girl was under obligation to scream: “In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, you must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellow man.” If, however, the attack took place in a field and the woman screamed and thus tried to get away from the attacker, she was not to be stoned, since she was overpowered and there was no one to rescue her.—Deut. 22:23-27.
But suppose the man had a weapon and threatened to kill the girl if she failed to lie down with him? These scriptures do not weaken the argument or alter the situation by citing any circumstance that would justify her in not screaming. It plainly says she should scream; hence, oppose the attack regardless of the circumstances. If she was overpowered and perhaps knocked unconscious and violated before help came in answer to her screams, she could not be held accountable. The thought of the scriptures apparently is that the girl’s screaming, by attracting neighborhood attention, would frighten off her assailant and would save her, even though he threatened her life for not quietly complying with his wishes and passionate desires.
Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, “Flee from fornication.” (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation. The Christian woman who wants to keep clean and obey God’s commandments, then, if faced with this situation today, needs to be courageous and to act on the suggestion made by the Scriptures and scream. Actually this counsel is for her welfare; for, if she should submit to the man’s passionate wishes, she would not only be consenting to fornication or adultery, but be plagued by the shame.
There would be shame, not only from the repulsiveness of the experience, but of having been coerced into breaking God’s law by having sex connections with one other than a legal marriage mate. Not only that, but she might become an unwed mother, or she may contract a terrible disease from her morally debased attacker.
It is true that a woman faces the possibility her assailant will carry out his threat; but, then, what guarantee does she have that such a desperate criminal would not kill her after satisfying his passion? In fact, such a one, perhaps already hunted by the law, may be more likely to kill her after the attack, since she would then have had a greater opportunity to identify him and would therefore be in a better position to supply a description of him to the authorities. In such case, following the Scriptural counsel of screaming could well save one’s life by attracting attention and driving the attacker away at the outset, instead of causing him to feel that he must get rid of his victim for fear of being identified later.
In most instances it is doubtless a matter of calling the assailant’s bluff, since the girl’s screams could result in his arrest for attempted rape. Also, if he carried out his threat and committed murder, he would face the likelihood of apprehension and conviction for this even more serious offense. Of course, there is the possibility that instead of fleeing immediately, the attacker may strike his victim or inflict a superficial wound to silence the screams, yet would not the endurance of such physical punishment be insignificant compared to the disgrace and shame of submitting to an immoral man?
A Christian woman is entitled to fight for her virginity or marital fidelity to the death. Just how best she can defend herself against anyone who wants to defile her depends upon her courage and quick wits. At least, as has been mentioned, she should first try to frighten off the would-be rapist by screaming and making as loud and noisy a spectacle of the matter as she possibly can, in order to summon any convenient aid. This being unavailing, then she has a right to defend her virtue by whatever means she can.
*** w68 6/1 347-9 The Christian's View of Self-Defense ***
ATTEMPTED RAPE
If you are a Christian woman, what should you do if, in spite of all precautions, you are set upon by a rapist? If you cannot deter him by reasoning, or by calling upon the name of Jehovah, then what? As a Christian you are under obligation to resist. This resistance includes screaming and creating as much disturbance as possible to try to frighten off the attacker and attract help. If the attack continues and you cannot break free to flee, then you would be justified even to inflict damage on your assailant if necessary.
Resistance is imperative, because the rapist is after, not just money, but your virtue. An issue of integrity to Jehovah’s laws is involved here. So by no means would it be proper quietly to submit to rape, as that would be consenting to fornication.—1 Thess. 4:3.
…Would it be different if the man had a weapon and threatened to kill you if you did not submit? No, the Scriptures plainly state that Christians are under obligation to “flee from fornication.” (1 Cor. 6:18) It is true that you face the possibility of death in this case. But you have no guarantee that if you meekly submit, your assailant will not kill you anyhow to avoid identification.
Here's how one sister responded to her attacker.
quote:
…She told him that marriage was honorable before God and that she was married, but that what he wanted to do was not honorable. Also, that if she did not scream she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation; that then she would be disfellowshiped or excommunicated from it and that this would be worse than being killed as far as she was concerned.
Again, when a man is raped by another man, or group of men (or women)where is a printed WTBTS required response put forth - as it is done for women. For that matter, where is the principle, or law, found in the Bible for a man's theocractic response during rape - that a man must scream during rape to keep his clean standing before Jehovah and in the WTBTS congregation?
waiting
