NO OVERTIME PAY?!

by Shakita 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • rem
    rem

    I tend not to get worked up about stuff like this. I think what usually happens is that a reasonable plan is put out and then certain critics pick up on a few lines and the media runs with it. The same was true with the whole luxury SUV tax break and the tax cuts that were proposed.

    The Luxury SUV thing got blown out of proportion. It was really meant to benefit small business owners who purchase larger trucks (say roofers or general contractors). Of course this leaves a loophole for people who want to buy huge Hummers, but that was not the purpose of the proposal.

    The other tax issue was so ridiculous. Just because people who don't pay taxes weren't also getting a refund, a huge stink was made. The first time I saw this issue in the news this detail was reported, but all subsequent reports of the tax refund neglected to report this. The people started getting upset because the tax break wouldn't benefit the poorest people. Well, of course not! Tax refunds are for people who pay taxes.

    I think this issue is something similar. It's probably just a revision of the overtime laws to make it more relevant in today's society. Certain lines are being scrutinized by critics and being blown way out of proportion. I could be wrong, but I've seen this way too many times already.

    rem, sick of partisan politics

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    The proposed executive duties test has three requirements: managing the enterprise; directing the work of two or more employees; and having authority to hire or fire (or such recommendations are given particular weight).

    I'm just curious who this would exempt from overtime that isn't already exempt? In the states I have worked in, anyone whose primary occupation is supervising other people is considered a manager, and can be put on salary and considered ineligible for overtime. Salesmen who work on commission are also exempt. The only test is that the salary at the end of the week must at least equal minimum wage if paid on an hourly basis.

    I have also understood (though I've never really dealt personally with personnel issues regarding them) that "professionals," highly educated persons like lawyers. engineers, college professors, etc. could be salaried, but these are not usually people who have to deal with minimum wage or overtime issues.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    I think what usually happens is that a reasonable plan is put out and then certain critics pick up on a few lines and the media runs with it.

    I'm inclined to agree that it seems like that is what is going on here. The original link was to a union website, and they are neither an unbiased nor a particularly credible source in my opinion. My experience with unions has been that there is no limit to how low they will go morally to get what they want. Distorting the facts about a proposed law would be the merest child's play for them. I'd give more credibility to the Watchtower Society than most unions.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    I could be mistaken, but I remember reading about this like six weeks ago. If I understand it correctly the time off instead of being paid overtime is a voluntary program. I see we've sited contra sites, what about a site in favor of this? Let's here BOTH or ALL sides, not just those oppossed.

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck

    Here is a great article from the Wall Street Journal:

    The link:

    www.wsj.com you need a subscription to get into see this

    FROM THE ARCHIVES: July 14, 2003

    How Lawyers Work Overtime

    Given all the union hollering over Labor Secretary Elaine Chao's proposals to update overtime laws, it's tempting to think this is just one more run-of-the-mill labor spat. The real story is that Ms. Chao is pushing through some much needed tort reform.

    The Labor Department recently outlined plans to update the nation's antiquated overtime provisions, first devised in 1938. Those Depression-era laws were originally meant to protect low-wage workers from toiling too many hours by guaranteeing them overtime; they specifically exempted most white-collar workers. By now the rules are so outdated (they refer to such jobs as "straw boss" and "leg man") that companies are at a loss to know how to categorize their employees or figure out who qualifies for overtime.

    That confusion has been a gold mine for trial lawyers. By 2001, the number of class action suits over overtime pay had surpassed even that other tort-bar standby -- workplace discrimination suits. Plaintiff attorneys trawl through companies, looking for categories of workers they say were "miscategorized" and "unfairly" deprived of overtime pay . Once they find a court to agree, they can extort millions in back pay and other damages from companies for huge groups of worker-plaintiffs.

    And what payouts they are. In California in 2001, the Farmers Insurance Exchange was hit with a $90 million judgment after lawyers argued that the company's claims adjusters should be paid overtime. After that precedent, most companies have given into the legal extortions, preferring to settle out of court to avoid getting hit with huge awards. Last year Radio Shack coughed up $30 million and Starbucks $18 million to settle store managers' claims that they were due overtime.

    Ms. Chao's update will help clear up the confusion, providing companies with clarity about job categorizations and returning overtime to the low-wage workers for whom it was originally intended. Today, only the rare worker earning less than $8,000 a year automatically qualifies for overtime. Ms. Chao's rules would raise that threshold (untouched since 1975) to about $22,000, securing overtime for 1.3 million more low-wage earners. On the other side, the rules would more clearly define who qualifies as an executive, manager or professional and make it harder for white-collar workers earning more than $65,000 a year to claim time-and-a-half.

    The new rules will also be a boon to the economy in another way. One reason the U.S. weathered the latest downturn better than countries like France or Germany is that it has flexible labor laws that allow companies to manage costs and use their work forces more efficiently. The new overtime regulations will give companies more freedom to create 21st-century work forces that increasingly depend more on white-collar jobs with varied time demands than on factory-floor jobs that go in eight-hour shifts.

    The unions are making hay over the rules, but largely for recruitment purposes. The Labor Department's modernization won't have any real effect on the rank-and-file, since many are already guaranteed overtime via collectively bargained contracts. But the unions have been trying for years (largely unsuccessfully) to recruit white-collar workers into the cause. They hope that by demonizing the overtime provisions they'll persuade more professionals to join unions to "protect" them in negotiations.

    What the unions don't say is that these new laws will give non-union workers a lot more job flexibility and security. Overtime rules make it impossible to work flexible hours because companies are required to pay for extra hours rather than allow workers to save up time in exchange for working fewer hours later. Salaried workers can also be more confident of a steady paycheck when companies hit rough times.

    Despite these obvious benefits, unions and trial lawyers recently persuaded Democratic House members -- aided by pro-labor Republicans like New York's Jack Quinn and Peter King -- to try to kill the overtime provisions via a labor spending bill. Ms. Chao prevailed by three votes, but Senate Democrats are gearing up to try the same.

    The Senate has so far been the graveyard of tort reform, but Ms. Chao's provisions give Republicans an opportunity to follow through on their promises to reform the tort system and remedy at least one field of lawyerly largesse. Seeing Ms. Chao's update through safely might not qualify Senators for overtime, but it would certainly count as a job well done.

  • obiwan
    obiwan

    If it cuts my overtime pay, I'm against it no matter the reason, I don't want time off, I want my money! Time off doesn't pay the bills.

  • rem
    rem
    My experience with unions has been that there is no limit to how low they will go morally to get what they want.

    I completely agree. I used to be a union member when I worked for an electric company in California and it was one of the worst experiences of my life.

    rem

  • Shakita
    Shakita

    I'm with obiwan. Time off can not pay for groceries, or for the kids school clothes.

    The new overtime regulations will give companies more freedom to create 21st-century work forces that increasingly depend more on white-collar jobs with varied time demands than on factory-floor jobs that go in eight-hour shifts.

    Sure, it would be great if everyone had a "21st century job", but how would the professional white collar suits get their butts cooled off in the office if it wasn't for the union "factory-floor jobs that go in eight-hour shifts".... there will always be class distinctions in the work place, and the unions protect the low income factory floor workers from big time corporations who would love to see this passed in the Senate this month. I can see them smiling and counting the extra money coming their way now.

    I still don't get how the economy will be better of for this. Less money to the employee, more product made for the company and inturn more profits for big business.

    Something just does not add up here.

    Mrs. Shakita

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck

    With more and more manufacturing jobs moving south of the border and overseas, this is becoming less and less a concern.

    When I worked for Lucent, the engineers, all *white collar*, all unionized, all making over time. They routinely worked 45 hours when the job could be done in 40. I watched them sleep at their desks, eat at their desks, play video games, make phone calls and do every thing except work.

    Their base pay, in Wichita, Kansas was approximately 85K for an engineer with 5 years experience. Don't tell me that he cannot feed his family.

    The manager, also white collar, *exempt* did put in 60 hours, managing the bunch of morons. He got no OT. They all got bonuses and stock options.

    Just one example of how that type of system can run a company into the ground.

  • rem
    rem

    Mrs. Shakita,

    I think this has more to do with redefining non-exempt job descriptions to make the the system less confusing and less prone to litigation. So far, really the lawyers are winning from this. I doubt many who really need the money will do without. If you do not qualify for overtime pay, then you are probably some type of manager or technical worker making a good wage. Also, it is good for lower income workers who may not have qualified for overtime before because the limits were so low.

    Having less lawsuits is good for the economy. Promoting a good work ethic is good for the economy. Sad to say, and I experienced this in the Union I was a member of, overtime pay gets a lot of abuse.

    rem, exempt employee and comp time advocate

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