by juandefiero 375 Replies latest jw friends
virtual particles popping in and out of existence
That is something observed in the existing universe. Something changing in the real world is different than nothing changing into something in a non existing universe. But if anyone can show proof that these so called particles existed before the atom was formed or that subatomic activity existed before the real world existed, I could not deny such proof.
I am too disorganized to keep tab of the links , but recall reading (no videos for me anymore), that there is additional energy in the expanding space appearing that is driving the accelerating expansion of the universe. how could it be expanding if there is not more energy? The thought was expressed that this (dark?) additional energy is a property of the void, and to my thinking that word implies the same realm that existed before, therefore also still "outside" the universe. If these fluctuations that triggered the "freezing" of energy into matter happen only "inside" or "after" the start, happened only "in" our realm of moving through time, , how can they be the cause? there has to be a reach into time before we started moving through it !?
The picture I have from what I read is, that an expanding universe would incorporate more and more of the energy that is latent, that was there before the beginning, before the universe started expanding. We might be off topic though, because the discussion was about "god" and not a creator and creative processes. . The Universe looks so much like something the best minds of man and womankind would concoct and make --eventually--, that work is the best analogy we have to explain existence.
Prologos, I am only posting my views here as I see it. I have not compared all of my views to known facts., so it is only as I see things.
It seems to me that if the energy of the universe is not zero then the system is not at equilibrium and that creates a lot of problems. Another thing to consider if the energy of the universe is greater than zero is where did that energy come from? Creationist would erroneously conclude that such energy is proof that God pushed the button but it would appear to falsify the Bible's information that it was by God's will that things were created which makes sense in a zero energy universe (given that God created the universe) -but what do I know except that I am convinced that God exists.
I have done work in a laboratory more than once and it is given that that God does not exist in science which simply means scientific realism is all we've got -in science.
And that makes sense because science would be pointless and reality would be a lie if we could not have faith in the world around us -not to say that we should not give up hope or ask God for help -except that is he not a variable in scientific results..
I do believe in God more than I believe in cause and effect of things but I do not believe that God is a measurable variable that could be found in a scientific equation of the working universe; however, I believe that God can be perceptible to the senses more so than scientific realism as a factor in our lives -but that is only what I see, just my view on things, my position.
a property of the void, and to my thinking that word implies the same realm that existed before,
If this void always existed with these particles, then the void with the fluctuations are an eternal reality but I need to see proof of that to beliive it (not from you)
The only thing that makes sense to me is an inert nothing, changed and exploded into the universe the substance of which chose a drive that made our universe possible to exist as it does.
I have nothing to prove to you, Cofty, and have no wish to engage in one of your twisted battles of semantics. You are the one who used a statistic that is almost 20 years old, and deliberately stated that I was not reading the bar graph correctly, with its coincidental "7%". You are the person whose "use of the statistics is very misleading".
No, you cannot browbeat me into submission. You, who respects some Bishop as an honest man (when every believer on this board is labelled by you as 'intellectually dishonest'). You, who claims that people are threatening him via PM, when in fact, they are not. You, who sneers at philosophy, yet yells "Socratic Method" to the rooftops. No, I shall not waste my time, because you have 'thrown down the gauntlet'. You've already lost any challenge, you're too easy.
The true "eureka" moments might be as close to the divine we could get, or passing on life and seeing and hearing a newborn.
Given the BIble, it records miracles and God's control and manipulation of all of the universe and laws; hence God transcends space and time and reality exerting his influence over everything that is real. WE could get closer to God than thatt It is something you must experience for yourself. What I meant to say is that the universe has measurable properties and predictions can be made from those measurements and those results are true while God cuncurrently exerts his infulence over the universe without affecting those results. God can remarkably transcend time and space and reality. The greatest pleasure any man can experience is not physical preasure but a real realtionship with God.
Given the Lord of the Rings, it records miracles and Gandalf's control and manipulation of physical laws of the universe; hence Gandalf transcends space and time and reality exerting his influence over everything that is real. WE could get closer to Gandalf than that It is something you must experience for yourself. What I meant to say is that the universe has measurable properties and predictions can be made from those measurements and those results are true while Gandalf concurrently exerts his influence over the physical universe without affecting those results. Gandalf can remarkably transcend time and space and reality. The greatest pleasure any man can experience is not physical pleasure but a real relationship with Gandalf.
See how silly that sounds?
Fisherman: "Given the BIble, it records miracles and God's control and manipulation of all of the universe and laws; hence God transcends space and time and reality exerting his influence over everything that is real.
There is no connection between the bible stories and reality, except that they are fictional stories that were made up and repeated. Any religious experiences based on the bible miracles, even the music it inspired, are artifacts of the human brain/ mind. There is no evidence that, as Newton opined, that :god: had to intervene, tamper with the laws, to make it happen, last. added: The one exception I would expect would be, if we would be unsuccessful in replicating the starting of life.
Talesin I literally have no idea what you are ranting about.
every believer on this board is labelled by you as 'intellectually dishonest'
I have never said that.
You, who sneers at philosophy, yet yells "Socratic Method" to the rooftops
Search my 17,000 posts I bet you will not find a single instance of me using the words "Socratic method".
I am sure I have said lots of things you could take exception to without having to make things up.
By the way what is a "coincidental 7%"?
