This thread is for proof that God exists (page 18)

prologos

The idea that the material universe with it's laws, made itself, might just be wishful thinking too. never been seen before, even on a smaller scale.

Coded Logic

reality involves something more and why the universe was formed and human conduct and morality.
-Fisherman

I think it's an interesting philosophical question to wonder if there's a "why" or purpose behind the universe. So long as one recognizes that "why" assumes intent. I can think of all kinds of reasons intended and unintended - perhaps our universe is a piece of artwork hanging in some alien gallery. Or, perhaps our universe is some exotic particle that was created unintentionally in an experiment. etc.

While such speculations are fun, I always try to ground myself that intent is an assumption we need not necessarily make. And that it's quite likely there may be no "why" to the universe.

conclusive, unambiguous, unequivocal, solid, indisputable evidence so that people may know once and for all that he is real. I would be convinced with such proof, how about you.

That's all I ask for. And indeed that's what this entire thread is about. And yet many people have come on here espousing their beliefs but not one of them is willing to furnish grounded reasons for those beliefs.

But let me ask you the opposite question, if there was a solid unambiguous evidence that Jehovah did not exist would you you be convinced?

Coded Logic

Now, the problem no longer is that you have no proof that God exists and therefore you have evidence to have faith that God will give you relief. The problem is that you have not relief. What happens to some people is that they forget about God- believe it or not, and they the stop believing that God- exists believe
-Fisherman

People "lose faith" in their governments. It doesn't mean they stop believing their governments are real. I've "lost faith" in friends before. It doesn't mean I started doubting my friends existence.

Belief in God isn't about "relief". It's about whether or not were justified in believing the claims that are made about a God's existence. Is there any good reason to think our universe was intentionally created? Is there any good reason to believe that humans are intelligently designed? Is there any good reason to think there is some sort for cosmic plan for all of us?

When looking at these questions we just aren't able to justify saying yes to any of them. And not only is there a lack of evidence for all of them - but for the second two there's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.

I appreciate that you are trying to understand the views of atheists and agnostics. But if you really want to know why we don't believe - just ask us. You really don't have to come up with these sorts of apologetics yourself.

Heaven

Soooo... just recapping here... 18 pages and that's bupkis on the evidence. Ok, carry on.

Fisherman

People "lose faith" in their governments. It doesn't mean they stop believing their governments are real. I've "lost faith" in friends before. It doesn't mean I started doubting my friends existence.

There is a difference with how people's mind deal with physical reality and remarkable proof of God and faith in him, there is also a difference between correct thinking and erroneous thinking. You have correctly pointed out correct thinking but your examples only show how people should deal with reality logically but you failed to show that when people do not like reality they try to fool themselves into believing that reality does not exist so they do not have to deal with it, for example, alcohol. suicide, denial, etc.There are more examples and it is a long topic to discuss but I think that it is sufficient to give a couple examples that show that when some people loose faith in reality they sometimes do not think correctly especially when reality hurts very much and they have to deal with it and the only way to cope with such pain is to believe that reality does not exists even though in the back of their minds they know it. The examples that I gave of people that know God is real but loose faith in him and forget about him sometimes come to their senses and realize that they failed to look at reality correctly.

Same as when someone reads an article or a post and does not read between the lines or or see what the author is inferring, people can be looking at at something real all of their lives and do not knowthat it is there until they change their perspective and realize the obvious or until it strikes them over the head and then they see. You have heard the expression: "I see!" said the blind man.

"It is comical." -Marvin Shiimer to hear people demand proof of God from other people. As if God was some puny thing unable to give every individual a special personal answer -just for them.

There is a problem posting I posted other information and try editing some of my choice of words that afeect meaning of some of my and cannot post through.

cofty

as if God was some puny thing unable to give every individual a special personal answer -just for them - Fish

Does that include Mormons and Muslims who also claim to have personal revelation of god's presence?

Fisherman

as if God was some puny thing unable to give every individual a special personal answer -just for them - Fish

as if Jehovah was some "puny"(- Raymond Franz) thing unable to give every individual a special personal answer -just for them.

To paraphrase Raymond Franz: .."it woukld be a puny God if he could be subjected to being measured or proof.."

cofty

Question still stands Fish.

This thread is for proof that God exists

cofty

prologos

Landy

Coded Logic

Coded Logic

Heaven

Fisherman

cofty

Fisherman

cofty

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