"There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it" (page 2)

unsure

Thanks everybody for the posts; keep them coming. If I don't respond to you directly I am still very appreciative of your contributions to this thread and will give a "like" to posts I agree with.

this statement shows you have *consciousness* and *cognitive ability* superior to animals of like body and functions. This (cognitive ability) is an *image of a creative mind* in function. Any ideas how thoughts are formed ?

Thank you for the answer but that doesn't cut it. Those arguing for evolution would say that our brains are more evolved then other creatures. As well, science is showing more and more "cognitive ability" in animals through many studies such as performing CT scans on dogs which shows "striking similarities between dogs and humans".

https://www.wired.com/2014/02/dog-brains-vocal-processing/

In terms of how thoughts are formed:

"They’re really just electro-chemical reactions—but the number and complexity of these reactions make them hard to fully understand…"

http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/what-are-thoughts-made

In regards to "make them hard to fully understand", this does not concretely point to a creator either. It could be that the science or tools to understand the more complex points are not there yet or it is currently being studied.

It is very hard to miss seeing creation, usually the sign of accomplished work, the doings of a creator, unless you believe that the universe created itself. Observe how creation works

Thank you for your post, however this is your subjective view and does not cut it. Many would say evolution is an accepted fact among the scientific community and even among many believers who see the overwhelming evidence for evolution and who do not take creation stories in religious texts literally.

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When reading the quotes above in favour of evidence for a Creator, I think "Hmmm yes that could very well be" but if I'm being honest with myself their are many completely valid and provable points that do not include the need for a Creator.

This is what I'm referring to HONESTLY and OBJECTIVELY look at every argument for or against a Creator. I can't lie to myself.

waton

"--your view --does not cut it--Many would say evolution is an accepted fact among the scientific community and even among many believers who see the overwhelming evidence for evolution--" unsure:

Evolution is the easy part, I firmly believe in that mechanism. the harder one is abiogenesis, the start of life, the appearance of matter, a form of energy, the laws that govern nature, the enigma of eternal time. your comment shows you have too narrow a view of creation, which is at least 4 times older than evolution's start.

P.S. Belief in creation, a creator, does not necessarily equate with belief in a personal (for you), intervening "god"

smiddy

Whether an individual believes in a personal creator or not depends on two things.

1. An individual WANTS to believe a personal creator exists for many and varied reasons including faith.

2.An individual does not see any verifiable evidence that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that such a being exists and has no faith that such a being exists.

Just my 2 cents worth in a nutshell .

Rainbow_Troll

I don't think it's meant to be complicated. If there were a creator deity who wanted us to recognize Its existence and worship It, It would not expect us to search half of our lives or go through intellectual gymnastics to arrive at Its existence. Instead, this deity (if it were rational) would simply create us with an innate belief in a creator deity along with a need to worship It which, coincidentally or not, is exactly the way most people are. The vast majority of human beings on this planet believe in some sort of creator God, whether they are monotheists, polytheists or animists. Atheists may have always existed too, but they have been an extremely small minority until recently.

waton

It would not expect us to search half of our lives or go through intellectual gymnastics to arrive at Its existence. R_T:

but that is exactly how Einstein thought about it, in his fruitful thought experiments, trying in a kind of mental game to pry the secrets of creation, the conversion of energy into matter, the time conundrum from the "lord" ,-- by way of dealing with the creation left behind by the creator. Albert must have felt it was set up like that: Here it is ;--use it,-- admire it, --work to find out my characteristics as expressed in my works.

That is the elephant in the room, the cosmos.

OneEyedJoe

The statement that there's evidence of a creator if you look for it betrays a lack of understanding of how one should go about arriving at correct conclusions. The point isn't to look for evidence of what you want to be true, the point is to decide what's true based on the evidence that's available. Finding evidence for something that you want to be true is called confirmation bias.

waton

Finding evidence for something that you want to be true is called confirmation bias. 1EJ:

finding evidence is evidence of you being a well prepared researcher, or a insightful theorist. Looking and finding evidence is part of the scientific method.

Confirmation bias would push you to ignore contrary evidence, resist falsification attempts. and

luck happens most often to the prepared.

Charles Gillette

Look! We need to face up to the facts. Life is short. Everything dies.There is no proof that we will live again after we die.This what it is all about. Trying to live forever with the approval of a god of sorts, higher power etc.Hence this never ending search for proof of the existence of a god that will grant us everlasting life because we worship it, him,her,and are a good person while living in this fleshly body that we know will eventually perish in its short life span.So,we cling to a hope that we honestly can't know.Now I have no need to take away peoples desire for a belief system that gives them comfort. Good for them if it helps them deal with what comes next after death.Yet I don't know anything.Even what i just wrote here i am willing to admit there are unknowables out there. 30 years a watchtower slave. Blueblades.

waton

Charles, good points. As for me, I have totally separated the question about a creator from the "life after death? or again" question. like your pragmatic approach too.

unsure

Evolution is the easy part, I firmly believe in that mechanism. the harder one is abiogenesis, the start of life, the appearance of matter, a form of energy, the laws that govern nature, the enigma of eternal time. your comment shows you have too narrow a view of creation, which is at least 4 times older than evolution's start
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but that is exactly how Einstein thought about it, in his fruitful thought experiments, trying in a kind of mental game to pry the secrets of creation, the conversion of energy into matter, the time conundrum from the "lord" ,-- by way of dealing with the creation left behind by the creator. Albert must have felt it was set up like that: Here it is ;--use it,-- admire it, --work to find out my characteristics as expressed in my works.

@waton

Notice how I say "Many would say" or "those arguing for evolution would say". I am not speaking from my "too narrow view of creation" and for that matter I don't think evolutionists are either; they are very well educated and have explored both sides of the argument. I am speaking on the arguments presented by those who are exponentially more knowledgeable on the subject than I will ever be. I entertain arguments BOTH in favour of creation and against creation. To not do so would be intellectually dishonest with myself. My view of Creation is anything but narrow.

Einstein was at most agnostic (many would say atheist)

"According to Richard Dawkins, the gifted exponent of evolution, Einstein was an atheist: “Einstein sometimes invoked the name of God, and he is not the only atheistic scientist to do so, inviting misunderstanding by supernaturalists eager to misunderstand and claim the illustrious thinker as their own.”"

http://www.bethinking.org/god/did-einstein-believe-in-god

Instead, this deity (if it were rational) would simply create us with an innate belief in a creator deity along with a need to worship It which, coincidentally or not, is exactly the way most people are. The vast majority of human beings on this planet believe in some sort of creator God, whether they are monotheists, polytheists or animists. Atheists may have always existed too, but they have been an extremely small minority until recently.

@Rainbow_Troll

This "innate belief in a creator deity" does not prove anything if I'm being honest with myself.

At one time most of humanity believed that the sun revolved around the earth and that the earth was flat. This did not make it true.

"There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

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