Watchtower appeals in Montana.

by lastmanstanding 40 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Corney
    Corney
    zeb In the course of the ARC the wt claimed clergy privilege but the justice said "you claim also not to have 'clergy'- you cant have it both ways"

    It's because he didn't acted like a judge in his role in the Commission. The law works in other way.

    blondie

    How can it be clergy confidentiality, i.e. the Catholic church penitent privilege long established is determined by<…> In the WTS procedures, the individual meets with 2 to 3 (sometimes more) elders. Thus the confidentiality starts out with more than one person acting as clergy that hears what the person has to say.

    Many jurisdictions don't restrict clergy privilege to Catholic-style confession.

    They have no clergy class. In fact, you will not be able to find the phrase "clergy-penitent" in the WTS publications.

    It doesn't matter whether Watchtower considers its elders as separate clergy class or not. What the law of the land says is the only thing that matters.

    For example, the District Court Judge's response to Watchtower's petition filed last year stated: "It is undisputed that agents for each Defendant [WTNY, CCJW and local congregation] received notice of the 2004 abuse and that these agents were all clergy as defined under Montana law" (p. 4) "All those working for all Defendants meet the definition of clergy in the Montana mandatory reporter law... See Mont. Code Annot. § 15-6-201(2)(b) ("Clergy" includes "a member of a religious order who has taken a vow of poverty.")" (p. 13-14).

    And the relevant Montana statute (MCA § 41-3-201(6)(c)) also doesn't include the phrase "clergy-penitent".


    For the record, I'm not saying that Watchtower is right on this issue, I would prefer to wait for further briefs and for the final judgment. But these nonsensical arguments are annoying, frankly.

  • blondie
    blondie

    blondie

    How can it be clergy confidentiality, i.e. the Catholic church penitent privilege long established is determined by<…> In the WTS procedures, the individual meets with 2 to 3 (sometimes more) elders. Thus the confidentiality starts out with more than one person acting as clergy that hears what the person has to say.

    Many jurisdictions don't restrict clergy privilege to Catholic-style confession.

    Corney, I was comparing what the definition of clergy-penitent law is in the legal system. The WTS does qualify based on the points I mentioned above.

    Also, I realized that the Catholic church is not the only one using this law, but the Catholic is most well-known for using it (especially in regard to child sexual abuse cases). The WTS talks out of both sides of their mouth, legal: we are like these other religions and can claim that the clergy-penitent law applies to the WTS; religious: condemning these other religions saying we are not like this other religions, we don't have a clergy class (except when it will benefit us legally).

  • John_Carter_1912
    John_Carter_1912

    https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/APP/connector/3/465/url/321Z35P_0EXPJY7EW00001M.pdf

    Watchtower's argument is that if we classify child rape as confidential, then we don't have to follow the law to report child rape... o boy



  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    Could be the next pseudo-argument. (occurs when those disagreeing are fanatically committed to their positions and refuse to consider other viewpoints .)

  • Listener
    Listener

    I wonder, their practice of being secretive may be legal under the law but surely, if their practice causes harm then they should be accountable for that.

    As an example, it is legal for a person to drive below the speed limit but if their driving is wreck less and causes an accident then they are liable for the damages.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Page 7 of the Court document states "Jehovah's Witnesses believe confession of sin is essential to salvation and confidentiality promotes confession".

    It takes a Court case against them for them to be very clear in what they really teach.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Page 7 of the Court document states "Jehovah's Witnesses believe confession of sin is essential to salvation and confidentiality promotes confession".
    It takes a Court case against them for them to be very clear in what they really teach.

    If you told the average witness their religion believes in confession of sin in order to attain salvation they wouldn’t believe you!!

  • Esse quam videri
    Esse quam videri

    This brief demonstrates that, contrary to the judgment below, Defendants
    did not violate the reporting statute. And even if they did, there is no evidence
    they acted with the “actual malice” necessary to justify punitive damages, and
    especially not the unlawful and shockingly excessive award of $31 million in
    punitive damages.

    They did not, and even if they did...

    ...unlawful and shockingly excessive award of $31 million...

    I can sense the court giving in already.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Claiming that a Court has acted unlawfully is very disrespectful, to say the least.

  • Brighton
    Brighton

    1) Doesn't the clergy privilege extend only to "confession"?

    2) These 2 individuals, in reporting their abuse, were not confessing to sin - they were reporting abuse.

    3) If WT considers the report of abuse a confession of sin - that indicates they consider abuse victims as willing participants and/or carrying some responsibility for what happened to them.

    If that is the case, it is even more disgusting than I thought.

    SO glad I'm not part of it any more.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit