Muhammad is my savior!

by d0rkyd00d 60 Replies latest jw friends

JohnClarinet

Dear Carmel,
You:
how did jesus die for the Muslems? There were no such critters for over 600 years after he was hung up to dry!
Me:
Gadzooks! Moslems ain't critters what. They made in God's image too like you and me. And did not Jesus's sacrifice includes them too in John 1:29?
You:
the exclusivist intrepretation of John 6:14 is identical to the exclusivist understanding of Mohammed saying he was the "seal of the prophets" or Moses calling himself the "friend of God".
Me:
Correction! It's John 14:6. And what has seal and friend has any similarity to "I am the way ... no one ... but by me"?
You:
have you ever wondered if there is a different meaning to these scriptures, or is it too uncomfortable to consider that just maybe jesus was not as unique as you would like him to be?
Me:
Yes I have, but the Bible confirms Jesus's claims in John 14:6. Period! :-)
BTW, I'm uncomfortable with this kinda forum style. Quite tyring and I've just been defending the faith in some Moslem board. Drop by at my site to continue discussions if yer interested:
http://pub26.bravenet.com/forum/show.asp?usernum=2200975854
God Bless,
John
JohnClarinet

Dear REM,
You:
We are hearing you loud and clear, but you are not understanding the question. Your authority is the Bible. That is where your belief that Jesus died for all comes from. You dogmatically state this claim even though you have no evidence that the Bible is in fact God's word.
Me:
Try reading the Bible and tell me if it isn't God's Word. Try studying the history of Israel and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word. Try studying the history of the church and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word. Try studying the history of the world and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.
You:
You have no more reason to believe what the Bible says than to believe the writings of the Hindu Vedas. Thus your claim that Jesus died for all is baseless.
Me:
The Hindu Vedas or any other religious books says man can achieve salvation by way of works. IN short, you are your own god, you save yourself. The Bible does not teach that does it?
You:
As for John's comment about Jesus unique claim "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." I say: "REM is the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me."
Now I've just started my own religion and Jesus' claim is no longer unique. How can you prove that I have not just saved all of mankind?
Me:
The Wages of Sin is Death (Romans 6:23). Since you never died nor offered yourself as a sacrifice why in the verld should I believe that you will take away the sins of the world. You don't even come close to the Messiah description in Isa 53. Read Romans on why you are not unique :-)
God Bless,
John
rem

John,
:Try reading the Bible and tell me if it isn't God's Word. Try studying the history of Israel and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word. Try studying the history of the church and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word. Try studying the history of the world and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.
Been there done that. I have many bibles and books of apocrypha, books on the history of Israel. I have seen no prophecies that could be explained by simpler means. I have seen no evidence for any inspiration from God in the Bible. I see nothing significant in the history of the church that leads me to believe it has any backing of some Higher Power. The history of the world is no more prophesied by God than it was prophesied by Nostrodomus. I was just as much a Bible thumper as you are, but I after an honest look at the facts, it was clear to me that the Bible is the work of man.
:The Hindu Vedas or any other religious books says man can achieve salvation by way of works. IN short, you are your own god, you save yourself. The Bible does not teach that does it?
Why are you comparing other religious works to the Bible? How do you know you should not be evaluating the Bible in relation to the other religious writings? Maybe all of the other writings are correct and the Bible is wrong (it does seem to be in the minority in the Salvation department)? Your sentence is nonsensical to a person who does not believe the Bible is the supreme authority. Before a rational person will believe the Bible to be the supreme authority, there needs to be evidence of this. There is none.
:The Wages of Sin is Death (Romans 6:23). Since you never died nor offered yourself as a sacrifice why in the verld should I believe that you will take away the sins of the world. You don't even come close to the Messiah description in Isa 53. Read Romans on why you are not unique :-)
My religion has nothing to do with the Bible. My disciples live by my words which are transmitted to the world through inspiration. I transfer my thoughts to a trained monkey which posts my commandments on jehovahs-witness.com under the handle of REM. This is their Bible. My ways do not require death for Salvation. My disciples - yes even the whole world is saved through my Life.
Don't worry my son, you are saved by the graces of REM. I don't mind that you are steeped in the false religion of the JHWH Bible. I am a much kinder and forgiving God than the ones humans invented.
You are blessed, my son
rem
Big Jim

(JUST SOME COOL QUOTES)
In matters of religion and matrimony I never give any advice; because I will not have anybody's torments in this world or the next laid to my charge.
There is no religion in which everyday life is not considered a prison; there is no philosophy or ideology that does not think that we live in alienation.
First, whenever a man talks loudly against religion, always suspect that it is not his reason, but his passions, which have got the better of his creed. A bad life and a good belief are disagreeable and troublesome neighbors, and where they separate, depend upon it, 'Tis for no other cause but quietness sake.
However sugarcoated and ambiguous, every form of authoritarianism must start with a belief in some group's greater right to power, whether that right is justified by sex, race, class, religion or all four. However far it may expand, the progression inevitably rests on unequal power and airtight roles within the family.
Those who believe in their truth -- the only ones whose imprint is retained by the memory of men -- leave the earth behind them strewn with corpses. Religions number in their ledgers more murders than the bloodiest tyrannies account for, and those whom humanity has called divine far surpass the most conscientious murderers in their thirst for slaughter.
JanH

Try reading the Bible and tell me if it isn't God's Word.

I have read it many times. In fact, studied it quite extensively.
It is not the word of any half sane God.
It is the errant, self-contradictory and ethically repugnant records of primitive savages, about their religion.
Try studying the history of Israel and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.

Ridiculous claim. Examples?
Try studying the history of the church and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.

I have studied the history of the church. And the Bibel prophecied that Christ would return within the lifetime of people living in the 1st century, so all that happened after that is something that proves Bible "prophecy" false.
Try studying the history of the world and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.

None of it is. You are either ignorant of world history, the Bible, or both.
The Bible, however, contains a number of utterly failed prophecies.
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
JohnClarinet

Dear REM,
Re:
:Try reading the Bible and tell me if it isn't God's Word. Try studying the history of Israel and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word. Try studying the history of the church and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word. Try studying the history of the world and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.
Been there done that. I have many bibles and books of apocrypha, books on the history of Israel. I have seen no prophecies that could be explained by simpler means.
Me:
Try explaining Isaiah 53 and Matt 26, 27.
You:
I have seen no evidence for any inspiration from God in the Bible.
Me:
While the Spartan slaves were "wiped out" by their mighty masters the Romans when they did their exodus the Jewish slaves were practically unharmed by their mighty masters the Egyptians when THEY did their exodus, they even went on to build a nation/kingdom too among hostile nations. Sheer luck?
You:
I see nothing significant in the history of the church that leads me to believe it has any backing of some Higher Power.
Me:
The early church did not rely on conquest to spread it's teachings, yet by the time Constantine made Christianity the official "religion" of the Roman Empire Christianity was already an established "religion" in the boundaries of the Roman Empire despite the persecution. "...and the powers of death shall not prevail against it" (Matt 16:18). 1/3 of the population today believes and accepts Jesus as their Savior. Devine intervention or sheer luck?
You:
The history of the world is no more prophesied by God than it was prophesied by Nostrodomus.
Me:
Look at todays issues:
1. Globalization
2. The UN
3. G8
4. European Union
5. The Euro
6. The US dollar
7. The US Government
8. Big Corporation mergers
Now you tell me if these things do not spell out the initial formation of a one world order as prophecied in Revelation? If you want to have an interesting discussion with me on this you can do it at my site:
http://pub26.bravenet.com/forum/show.asp?usernum=2200975854
You:
I was just as much a Bible thumper as you are, but I after an honest look at the facts, it was clear to me that the Bible is the work of man.
Me:
Strange. I went the opposite. I was even more convinced that the Bible is God's Word.
Re:
:The Hindu Vedas or any other religious books says man can achieve salvation by way of works. IN short, you are your own god, you save yourself. The Bible does not teach that does it?
Why are you comparing other religious works to the Bible? How do you know you should not be evaluating the Bible in relation to the other religious writings? Maybe all of the other writings are correct and the Bible is wrong (it does seem to be in the minority in the Salvation department)?
Me:
Tell me where in the Bhagavad Gita or Quran or any other religious book that states that they are the only way to God, Heaven, nirvana, etc. Or salvation is by faith and faith alone (as if God needed anything in exchange for our salvation - good works)
You:
Your sentence is nonsensical to a person who does not believe the Bible is the supreme authority. Before a rational person will believe the Bible to be the supreme authority, there needs to be evidence of this. There is none.
Me:
Most cultures have an ancient story of a big flood and that the survivors are the origin of their tribes. One wonders how such ancient stories sounds so familiar with Noah's account in Genesis. I live among diverse cultures and I know what I mean.
Re:
:The Wages of Sin is Death (Romans 6:23). Since you never died nor offered yourself as a sacrifice why in the verld should I believe that you will take away the sins of the world. You don't even come close to the Messiah description in Isa 53. Read Romans on why you are not unique :-)
My religion has nothing to do with the Bible. My disciples live by my words which are transmitted to the world through inspiration. I transfer my thoughts to a trained monkey which posts my commandments on jehovahs-witness.com under the handle of REM. This is their Bible. My ways do not require death for Salvation. My disciples - yes even the whole world is saved through my Life.
Me:
I don't see any REM temple at my end of the globe. Are you one of those David Koresh wannabes? :-)
You:
Don't worry my son, you are saved by the graces of REM. I don't mind that you are steeped in the false religion of the JHWH Bible. I am a much kinder and forgiving God than the ones humans invented.
Me:
I am not a JW. I'm an Evangelical Christian from the Brethren Denomination (same denomination as FF Bruce). IN short, I belong to the Trinitarian gang. BTW, if yer god, please tell me what I had fer breakfast this morning. :-)
God Bless,
John
JohnClarinet

Dear Jan,
Re:
Try reading the Bible and tell me if it isn't God's Word.
You:
I have read it many times. In fact, studied it quite extensively.
It is not the word of any half sane God.
It is the errant, self-contradictory and ethically repugnant records of primitive savages, about their religion.
Me:
Primitive? How can monotheism be primitive? Polytheism was the fad during primitive times so how can you say primitive? Savages? While the pagans were sacrificing their children to their gods, the Jews were practising a more civilized sacrifice.
Re:
Try studying the history of Israel and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.
You:
Ridiculous claim. Examples?
Me:
Look who's back from exile and reestablished their nation?
Re:
Try studying the history of the church and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.
You:
I have studied the history of the church. And the Bibel prophecied that Christ would return within the lifetime of people living in the 1st century, so all that happened after that is something that proves Bible "prophecy" false.
Me:
Since when 1st century? If Matt 28:19 has yet to be fulfilled how be it 1st century?
Re:
Try studying the history of the world and tell me if it is not prophecied in God's Word.
You:
None of it is. You are either ignorant of world history, the Bible, or both.
Me:
See my response to REM regarding world events and Revelation.
You:
The Bible, however, contains a number of utterly failed prophecies.
Me:
Every knee shall bow and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Today 1/3 of the 6 billion world population are Christians and it started from a little ban of Jewish desciples.
God Bless,
John
SixofNine

Johnsnotclearyet,
While the Spartan slaves were "wiped out" by their mighty masters the Romans when they did their exodus the Jewish slaves were practically unharmed by their mighty masters the Egyptians when THEY did their exodus, they even went on to build a nation/kingdom too among hostile nations. Sheer luck?
Which exodus was that again? Do you mean that bible story precipitated by god killing the snotty nosed evil firstborn of the Egyptians? The Exodus that left no trace, by a slave nation that left no trace? From mighty masters who don't mention that part of their history in the least? And building that nation/kindom amongst hostile nations, that is a tad easier if you have no concience about killing anything and everything in your way, save for the best lay, 'cuz god told you to, isn't it?
JohnClarinet

Dear Six,
Re:
While the Spartan slaves were "wiped out" by their mighty masters the Romans when they did their exodus the Jewish slaves were practically unharmed by their mighty masters the Egyptians when THEY did their exodus, they even went on to build a nation/kingdom too among hostile nations. Sheer luck?
You:
Which exodus was that again? Do you mean that bible story precipitated by god killing the snotty nosed evil firstborn of the Egyptians?
Me:
Kindly read Exodus 1 and tell me who is responsible for killing Hebrew children long before the exodus lead by Moses.
You:
The Exodus that left no trace, by a slave nation that left no trace? From mighty masters who don't mention that part of their history in the least?
Me:
Please update your history of Egypt by reading this link:
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/pharaoh.html
You:
And building that nation/kindom amongst hostile nations, that is a tad easier if you have no concience about killing anything and everything in your way, save for the best lay, 'cuz god told you to, isn't it?
Me:
In those battles did not God intervene to help His children? If God is for the Israelites, who can stand against them? That's what Rahab acknowledged. As for the hostile kingdoms why don't you do a study of what these guys practise and believe in. I hear some of them practise child sacrifices. The stuff they practised are an abomination to God, the Israelites did God a "favor".
God Bless,
John
TheHighPriest

Savages? While the pagans were sacrificing their children to their gods, the Jews were practising a more civilized sacrifice.

That my friend is a missrepresentation of the truth ie. a lie.
Judges chapter 11 says from verse 30:
30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. {whatsoever…: Heb. that which cometh forth, which shall come forth} {and…: or, or I will offer it, etc
32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.
33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. {the plain: or, Abel}
34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. {beside…: or, he had not of his own either son or daughter: Heb. of himself}
35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows. {go up…: Heb. go and go down}
38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel, {custom: or, ordinance}
40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year. {yearly: Heb. from year to year} {to lament: or, to talk with}
Did you notice how he carried out his vow. This honourable man presents a more civilised sacrifice, yes or no.
I would like to see you deal with this.
THP

Muhammad is my savior!

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