Muhammad is my savior!

by d0rkyd00d 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • JT
    JT

    Mulan says

    I meant that Christ died for all men

    #######now i have no intentions to come off sounding like like i'm Dogging her , but consider

    1. who told her this

    2 what belief system taught her this-- (i assume Christainity)

    3 Where did she read this (i assume from the manual that christian follow know as the Holy bible

    i just asked Rajeev if Christ died for him

    he told me he knows little of the fellow

    he refers to jesus as a Fellow- being Hindu

    now is that now how christian would view Muhammad as a fellow or chap

    my point is once again we see the role that ones Belief system plays in their views - outlook on life and how they view others who DON'T SHARE THEIR VIEWS

    how sad

    james

  • JT
    JT

    ginney says
    If God knows everyone's situation, what is the point of prayer? Do many prayers affect God's actions toward someone suffering with an illness? Whatever Spong believes about God, I think his point is valid. Will someone who is not a believer, or for whom no one prays, suffer more than a person who has friends who do pray?

    ####

    good point indeed i agree with you 110%

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Scorpion,

    I by no means want to belittle your belief in prayer, even if I may view it a bit differently. I think that belief itself is powerful and can have an effect on the mind and body, as can knowing that one has the love and support of many friends.

    While I was driving my son to school, I couldn't help pondering your comment:

    Prayer to me is communication with God, just as a child would communicate with their parents.

    I tried thinking about this in human terms. What if I had three children? One loves me very much and thinks I'm a good mom. Another doesn't quite understand why I decide as I do and isn't quite sure she's my child. She wonders if she's adopted. My third child is independent and strong-willed and doesn't want me mothering him at all.

    Suppose all three children were injured in a car wreck. Would I give the most medical treatment to the child who asked me for it the most? Would I give more medical treatment to the child whose friends asked me the most? Would I deny treatment to any of my children?

    The analogy falls down because God is a parent we never see. Our communication with him is usually not direct, but through mediators and written text. He doesn't speak directly to us; we can only interpret events as an indication of what he wants.

    Perhaps life was easier in Old Testament days, when it was thought that God caused both good and evil. The Psalms are full of petitions for God to punish people's personal enemies. Things were pretty clear cut--if you obeyed, you were blessed; if you disobeyed, you were punished. People were also punished collectively and for the sins of their ancestors.

    Now that God is love, it is more difficult to explain bad things. I well remember my thinking in JW days. Something good happened--Jehovah is blessing me! Something bad happens--maybe I'm not doing Jehovah's will, maybe it's a trap from Satan, maybe this is a lesson for me. We humans want reasons; we want things to make sense.

    These answers did not satisfy me in the long run. In an average day in the hospital, why do some people die and some people live? If God plans to do what he wants anyway, are our petitions just a means to vent and express our feelings?

    I can't help but think of Voltaire, who was a theist until a devastating earthquake leveled Lisbon on All Saint's Day, November 1, 1755. It is estimated that over thirty thousand people died in the disaster. Raging fires started by candles lit in observance of All Saint's Day spread throughout the city. Many died in church, praying.

    Voltaire was compelled to ask, "What was my God doing? Why did the Universal Father crush to shapelessness thousands of his poor children, even at the moment when they were upon their knees returning thanks to him?"

    Like you, I can't explain why God seems to answer some prayers and ignores others.

    Ginny

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    dear john,

    how did jesus die for the Muslems? There were no such critters for over 600 years after he was hung up to dry!

    the exclusivist intrepretation of John 6:14 is identical to the exclusivist understanding of Mohammed saying he was the "seal of the prophets" or Moses calling himself the "friend of God". have you ever wondered if there is a different meaning to these scriptures, or is it too uncomfortable to consider that just maybe jesus was not as unique as you would like him to be?

    eligah

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Are you guys PURPOSELY not "hearing" me? Good grief. Maybe I am not expressing it the way I meant it, but it seemed clear to me. I agree with whoever said there is no true religion. That seems pretty obvious.
    When the Bible says that Jesus died for all men, that all might live, it seems pretty clear to me, that it means just that. Don't add to it. All men includes all men, whether they know he did it or not. If you buy into the whole theology, and are a Christian, I guess that makes you more responsible. As I said before, I just don't know.

  • rem
    rem

    Mulan,

    We are hearing you loud and clear, but you are not understanding the question. Your authority is the Bible. That is where your belief that Jesus died for all comes from. You dogmatically state this claim even though you have no evidence that the Bible is in fact God's word. You have no more reason to believe what the Bible says than to believe the writings of the Hindu Vedas. Thus your claim that Jesus died for all is baseless.

    As for John's comment about Jesus unique claim "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." I say: "REM is the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me."

    Now I've just started my own religion and Jesus' claim is no longer unique. How can you prove that I have not just saved all of mankind?

    rem

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I repeat. You are not hearing me. I never said that is what I believe. I am merely quoting what the Bible says. I never said I take it as the last word, which in fact I don't. I am quoting Christian theology, and maybe my take on it. As to the Bible, and Christianity, I repeat AGAIN: I just don't know. In my first post, where I said "Period", I only meant it as a finality of their beliefs, and how I used to believe.

  • JT
    JT

    Mulan says

    I repeat. You are not hearing me. I never said that is what I believe. I am merely quoting what the Bible says. I never said I take it as the last word, which in fact I don't. I am quoting Christian theology, and maybe my take on it. As to the Bible, and Christianity, I repeat AGAIN: I just don't know. In my first post, where I said "Period", I only meant it as a finality of their beliefs, and how I used to believe

    ########

    now i understand your position

    thanks

    james

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    Ginny,

    I enjoy your thoughts. I do not have the answers for what goes on within life and each individuals experience. I do know what my circumstances are and what has happened in my realm of life. I do not claim Christianity as it is today. I do not see the Bible as inerrant.
    I do believe in God.

    What I see as a problem with people that acknowledge God, is that when something goes wrong as in the experience you stated with Voltaire, they blame God. Why? Did God really have something to do with the circumstances that befall each of us?

    You mentioned that my analogy (prayer to me is communication with God as a child does with their parent) falls down. It might seem that way to one that does not fit into my shoes. I know God is there, I cannot show anyone this. God reveals himself, I as a person have nothing to do with this.

    Ginny, I wonder sometimes if what (we see) as an unanswered prayer, actually is answered but we do not see or understand it. I have friends that believe we are in a Matrix. Have you seen the movie? What we see that appears to be reality may be just the opposite.

    I enjoy your comments.

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Scorpion,

    What I see as a problem with people that acknowledge God, is that when something goes wrong as in the experience you stated with Voltaire, they blame God. Why? Did God really have something to do with the circumstances that befall each of us?

    If one gives God credit when something goes right in his life (i.e. "God is blessing me." "God answered my prayers."), it seems to me to naturally follow that he must have something to do with things that go wrong. If God does not directly cause these events, why does he allow them to happen?

    As far as the analogy, if God has communicated in a direct and clear way with you, I certainly cannot quibble with that. Perhaps he has chosen to reveal himself to you and not to me. I have never received what I would interpret as direct communication from God. If God chooses whomever he pleases, there's not much I can do, eh?

    I have heard it said that there is no such thing as an unanswered prayer; it's just that sometimes the answer is "no." I don't understand why, in a hospital on the same day, when two families pray, one family's child lives and another family's child dies. I've heard the standard responses: "God's ways are higher than our ways." "Things happen for a reason." This may be so, but doesn't seem right or fair. This, of course, leads into the whole Biblical idea of humans as pots made of clay, which God can use any way he wishes.

    I haven't seen The Matrix.

    It could be that everything we experience is an illusion. It's not much comfort to me to contemplate a God who would say, "Your son didn't really die; I was only kidding. I needed to teach you a lesson."

    Ginny

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