WITNESS BUSINESS PARTNERS FROM HELL

by Mary 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mary

  How many horror stories have we all heard about brothers at the Hall who decide to go in to business together, only to have it end up in disaster? My brother-in-law, Bill did this with a reeeeeal good Christian brother I'll call Max, a couple of years ago. My brother-in-law works in construction, and does the actual work. Max was the contractor. To make a long story short, Max convinced Bill to pay for the supplies for a job they were doing out of his own pocket, because Max was "just waiting for another sub-contractor to pay him" some money. As soon as that money came through, Max would pay Bill what he owed him. And guess what?? (naturally), Bill never got paid. Shocker eh? Max owed him over $10,000 but declared that he "didn't have any money" to pay him with because other people hadn't paid HIM.

  This guy was a con-artist if ever there was one. He's ripped off his parents, his siblings and about 6 or 7 other brothers at the Hall, safe in the knowledge that none of them "could take him to court", because of the WTs stupid rule about "letting yourself be defrauded" rather than take your brother to court. Funnily enough though, when he tried pulling this crap with some "worldly" people, he found the money he owed them pretty damn quick when they paid him a visit with a crow-bar one night. I guess they made him an offer he couldn't refuse..

  Anyone else got some horror stories along this line?
• 

  ballistic

  Judging by the number of "special needs" talks on "business dealings with brothers should always be made in writing" I agree there must be many. And yes, I know of one complete catastrophe which involved an elder stepping down before he could be axed and a judicial body being brought in to investigate a complete disaster of a company.
• 

  JeffT

  I know this won't have any effect if Bill is following the org's rules about not taking legal action against a brother, but he should find out what lien law is in your state. In most places he can file a lien (claim) against the property where the materials were delivered. If everybody did what they were supposed to do, Max will have given the property owner a notice saying that there are no claims resulting from his work. He is no legally obligated to pay the claim, or compensate the owner if the owner has to clear the claim himself. In any event, his contracting days are likely over.
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  unbeliever

  Get this. I knew a sister (had inactive husband) that got this nice young girl at the KH who was a publisher to watch her 3 kids while she worked one summer.

  She was supposed to pay her X amount per day and it soon started adding up. She would pay $20 here and there. When the babysitter said she needed to be paid the full amount or she could not watch them anymore the sister would make her feel guilty and would give her a hard time. The girls mother was no help and said that she should be more patient.

  When the babysitting bill got to be $400+ the girl quit watching them all together and demanded to be paid and the bitch refused. She used the excuse that she did not give her proper notice and she had to quit her job and could not afford it.

  The babysitter had a non jw father who was furious with what went down so he filed a lawsuit on her behalf in small claims court. Before it went to court the sister was able to cough up the money and the father insisted that she also pay the filing fees which she did. It caused A LOT of embarrassment for the sister and she was publically reproved.

  The elders did not do anything to the publisher and she was not marked. I think they were worried what her father might do and did not want to piss him off. Sadly that nice young girl is still in the troof.
• 

  freedom96

  Witness business partners are terrible. End of story.
• 

  Jayson

  I had witness employee's. In fainess they were great people as to how they worked. But the "elders" kept interjecting themselves into our business. (My wife is de'fd) I never been a witness did not realize the power that elders have over active witnesses at the time. I basicly told the employee to tell the boys to mind their own bee'swax. But they made everything an issue. It was scary because it got the point where I wanted to fire them because of the conflict. Lucky for me they quit of their own accord. I can't say DON"T HIRE JW'S if you have an issue with their ideology. That is or could be discrimination. But, I will say have a very clear contract of work, duties, rules, ethics, and expectations. Also have a right to hire, right to fire clause. IOW get a lawyer and a very clear work contract! (OR leave out a copy of C o C here and there)
• 

  LDH

  About ten years ago, I was considering going into a home based business to get back into pioneering, LOL.

  I was thinking of starting a business billing and submitting medical claims on behalf of hospitals and doctors. This was not to be a fly by night operation, I had held a couple of state licenses in insurance since the age of 18, work for two major carriers and a third was an outsource company particularly for the medical claims industry, so I knew my stuff.

  I was seriously thinking of this and mentioned it to an elder. I even went so far as to explain how I would carry out my plan. At the time I was thinking of getting a bank loan, since up-front costs would be about $8,000. My in was the fact that I had been babysitting for four doctors in our small town for about 8 years, and could easily get an audience, and a chance.

  Well, of course, this elder (who was a salesman of mechanical parts; had never done any insurance work at all) jumped up and went in whole hog. The next thing I knew, he and his wife had started this business on their own.

  Of course, they didn't have the contacts or the experience. I believe they either barely broke even or lost the money. A few year later, I interviewed the brother for a job position in the insurance industry --the position paid aroun $16/hr plus benefits. He brought in so many other issues about his health problems that I honestly couldn't recommend him for the position.

  Too bad, huh?

  Lisa
• 

  Mary

  Before it went to court the sister was able to cough up the money and the father insisted that she also pay the filing fees which she did. It caused A LOT of embarrassment for the sister and she was publically reproved.

  Well my god, miracles never cease...........someone who was an underhanded Witness actually got what they deserved.............

  Max did have his sorry ass dragged before the elders and boo-hoo-hooed during the whole process, pleading poverty in his $2,000 suits and $300 ties (which should've been turned into a noose) and ended up getting "privately reproved". Seeing as he never went out in Service anyway, or gave any talks, this was no punishment at all. Meanwhile, my sister and brother in law almost lost their house over this crap. We all chipped in and helped them out for over a year, to get them back on their feet. Meanwhile, poor Max was just soooooooo stressed that he had to take his whole family to Disney World during March break for a vacation. I believe they stayed in the Grand Floridian, which is like, over $300/night for the cheapest room.

  On a sad note, my brother in law had always been a very trusting, mild person before this happened. As someone who he had considered a good friend, turned out to be a Judas Iscariot, he was literally in shock for a while, unbelieving that someone "in the truth" and who was a good friend, could betray him like that. He now suffers from panic attacks and anxiety, something he never had before.

  The only consolation is that Max tried ripping off yet another couple of "worldly" people about 6 months ago. He somehow ended up with a broken leg, a black eye and two cracked ribs, apparently by "falling down in the driveway." Yep, 'let he who thinks he is standing, beware that he does not fall.'

  By the way Lisa, I love your story!!
• 

  NeonMadman

  safe in the knowledge that none of them "could take him to court", because of the WTs stupid rule about "letting yourself be defrauded" rather than take your brother to court.

  The theory, of course is that if he's defrauding people, he will be brought before a judicial committee. If he's really repentant, he'll make restitution, and be able to stay in the congregation. If not, he'll be disfellowshipped, and then the "brothers" will be able to sue him, since he's not a "brother" anymore.

  Whether or not that actually happens probably depends on how many elders he's related to.
• 

  waiting

  My brother-in-law works in construction, and does the actual work. Max was the contractor. To make a long story short, Max convinced Bill to pay for the supplies for a job they were doing out of his own pocket, because Max was "just waiting for another sub-contractor to pay him" some money. As soon as that money came through, Max would pay Bill what he owed him. And guess what?? (naturally), Bill never got paid.

  This isn't that rare - even in the Real World. I know a big body shop in our city which had contractor building a $300,000+ addition on.........contractor ran short on money upfront, body shop owner knew him....so let him use his money, etc. etc. Somehow, it ended up that the body shop lost about $50,000 or so on the deal.

  A guy who comes in our store did the identical thing that Max did to TWO of his employees on different jobs. Neither employee got his money. Some of these employees are just local guys - don't have the finesse to use the law. One guy finally told his parents.....and they went to law with him. Don't know if either guy got their money back, though. Oh! The contractor's wife still drives a Range Rover & he a new Trans Am though.

  It happens all over. One thing is - when it happens in the cong......we never see it coming......because we were taught that "Jehovah's people don't behave that way." They do....just like worldly people.

  I belonged to Auto Trim Line for years - which was the biggest group of brothers in business worldwide. Lasted about 15 yrs., then became Auto Trim Design, now a co-operative of sorts. Major problems with brothers in some areas. Some areas, it's worked out for 3 decades.

  Depends a lot on the individuals, their personal honesty, their business ethics, & their maturity.

  waiting