by JH 27 Replies latest jw friends
In my research, I've learned that children who masturbate are often victims of sexual abuse...I'm sure that's not always the case, but in the case of the little girl fantasizing about being attacked, I would certainly guess that's the case with her...
I wouldn't. It's an interesting discussion though. The two women I know who don't/can't masturbate as adults, were both molested as children. They are also both highly sexual adults.
I think the issue here is the word Masturbate, which implies a lot of intent that an 18 month old could not have. I think exploring their genitals is a much better way of thinking of it, because that's really what they are doing. Yes, it feels good, but to a child so does putting random things they pick up off the floor. Sexual pleasure is far more advanced with regards to motive than I think a toddler can comprehend. My son touches himself, but he doesn't do it in a manner that appears to be giving him pleasure, he appears to be experimenting with what his penis will do. Actually, he is usually looking at it to see if "pee pees" will come out of it lol.
Maybe I am uncomfortable with using the word masturbate in regards to young children because it seems like the sort of thing a pedophile would say to justify getting pleasure from a young child. Maybe I am just too puritanical about certain words, and I can definitely blame my JW upbringing if that's the case
Just my opinion.
Happyout
I'm inclined to agree with happyout on this one - I find it hard to think of a little kid checking out his or her genitalia as "masturbating." No more so than washing one's genitals is masturbating. If the action is done for physical pleasure, or as a reaction to stress (which is actually for physical pleasure to relieve the stress), then I guess I'd consider it masturbation, but I personally don't recall ever touching myself for the purpose of giving myself physical pleasure before approximately the onset of puberty. Maybe other kids did, I don't know. But there were certainly times as a little guy that I checked out my penis, just to see what it would do. Usually followed by stern warnings not to "play with myself" or I'd go crazy (hmmm...maybe they were right ).
From Piph: "....children who masturbate are often victims of sexual abuse...I'm sure that's not always the case, but in the case of the little girl fantasizing about being attacked, I would certainly guess that's the case with her..."
I have to strongly disagree with you.
First on this: "children who masturbate are often victims of sexual abuse". I would like to rephrase this if you don't mind. Children who masturbate are often fond of puppies. Children who masturbate are often fond of candy. Children who masturbate almost always like playing with paper airplanes. Children who masturbate are frequently skipping, jumping, and generally having fun.
No adult likes to think of children being sexual creatures, but the truth is - they are. Of course, that does not mean in ANY way, that they are ready for adult sexuality. I noted another poster above, (apologies that I can't remember your handle), mentioned that her little son plays with "himself" but she doesn't believe he experiences sexual pleasure from it. Perhaps not. But, I think that as adults who want to protect children, we must understand reality. The truth is that sexual abuse usually "feels" very good to the child being abused...why? because it is sexual! That's what makes sexual abuse so insidious. That's also why it's so difficult for children to tell their parents about being abused...in most cases, it feels good to the child...and I'm not just talking about the candy she was given beforehand.
Second on this Piph: "children who masturbate are often victims of sexual abuse...I'm sure that's not always the case, but in the case of the little girl fantasizing about being attacked, I would certainly guess that's the case with her."
It's a pretty common sexual fantasy for a girl, even a very young girl, to imagine being attacked...not certain why that is but I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with the many other fantasies that little girls are fed; of being helpless and endangered and ultimately rescued by the big, strong man...those fantasies come from what our culture feeds to little girls every day. I remember having that sort of sexual fantasy when I was as young as 6 or 7...and at that age I had never been sexually abused.
I also have to disagree with some comments;
My three year old nephew "plays" with himself.... and I know that he has not been sexually abused whatsoever! He is just playing with it b/c it feels good. He doesn't know any better....
Whenever he does it, we just tell him without freaking out that he should do that in private and that is it. If he keeps it up, then we just tell him more strongly that it's not nice to do that around other people. We never tell him that it's "wrong" or evil... it's his body and he can do what he wants with it! We were all his age once and I'm sure that our parents could dig up some dirt on us real fast...... remember that it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Of course if it was a witness parent, the child would probably be scolded at the very least; probably spanked. A very sick mentality will develop toward "sex" and feelings of guilt will rule the poor childs mind long long long afterwards.
The WTBTS has no idea what they are talking about..... as per frigging usual. It doesn't even take a nincompoop to figure this one out... why are they so freakin' stupid! What is that scripture,"deaden your body members as regards fornication". How the hell is a three year old supposed to figure that one out when they don't even know what their privates are for???
Idiots.
Piph:
Sorry, you'll have to do better than that: cite your research. I certainly haven;t seen any research that duplicates yours, so would be very interested in known how you went about it and the smple size.
I think my point about children developing sexuality over time, and not when they reach an age when their parents feel comfortable about using the word masturbate when they touch their sexual organs!
Playing with youe willy or ginny 'cause it feels nice is masturbation; you don't have to climax for it to count as masturbation.
As regards Piph assertion, that fantasies involving abduction, et. al. indicate abuse... I think a lot of women disagree with you... from my research...
I've known women with healthy non-abusive childhood who found 'rape' fantasies highly erotic. Problem is some psychologists feel any such fantasy is indicative of something going wrong in sexual development. They miss out on the word FANTASY. I've had a girlfriend who was abused who was very cautious about anything even the littlest bit racey.
Many women have fantasies about things they do not want to happen to them. Many men have fantasies that are similarly thing they would not want in real life. Just 'cause a women has a fantasy about rape doesn;t mean she wants to be rape or has been raped. Just 'cause a guy has a fantasy about seducing a college sophomore doesn't mean he wants to seduce a college sophomore.
Hey all,
first back to the original question. I feel a lot of the shocked replies to this indicate a certain amount of prudishness (in the nicest possible way) and possibly a good old WTBTS emotional hangover.
I can't put an exact date on itself but I started around the age of five and continued pretty consistently through to puberty. I remember how long it took me to come to terms with it. I was convinced I was being punished by god by giving me a pre-pubescent erection and struggled with the guilt of this and the belief I was a bad person for years.
I remember very clearly the first time I realised my JW friends also partook and the enormous sense of relief (pardon the pun) that others were engaging in this 'unclean' habit.
I know of brother in a local congregation who was so wracked with guilt over his habit he took himself to the local hospital and demanded a circumcision to attempt to curtail his masturbation. Of course, this wasn't delivered and I think he may have actually got a psychiatric referral instead.
On a more first-hand note, I am a doctor in hospital not far from where I was brought up. I would admit people to a surgical ward the night befor minor ops such as vasectomies, varicose veins and hernia repairs. This one young chap came in for an inguinal (groin) hernia repair. Normally it takes me around ten minutes to get everything done with these patients. However, this bloke happened to be a JW and when he recognised me he pored out his heart to me and told me he had developed this hernia because he'd masturbated for the first time, at the age of thirty! It took me forty-five minutes of listening, counselling and reinforcing that masturbation does NOT make you go blind, give you hariy palms or hernias. This poor man was distraught. I also happen to know from another source that he'd been to see the elders about his 'problem'.
It's not just ignorance, but down-right dangerous, propagating these ridiculous myth. Mental health is on the line here.
"...told me he had developed this hernia because he'd masturbated for the first time, at the age of thirty! "
OH MY GAWD! 30!!?? I really feel for this poor guy, really. But just imagine the poor woman who gets to be his "first"...be afraid; be very afraid....
