by stephenlettclownface 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • jehovaxx
    In my OP I said that I'm fascinated by people like yourself who rejected JW teachings and then decided not only was the religion false, but the Bible and the stories of Jesus and God are too. (Or might be).

    I’m fascinated by people who decide JWs are not the truth but other interpretations of the Bible are.

    Surely in the end most people come to the conclusion that those of us who become agnostic did.

    We just don’t know, and be comfortable in the knowledge that we just don’t know. There are so many interpretations and they may have some truth to them or maybe not. Almost certainly there is more to it.

  • Diogenesister

    Hi !

    I thought I'd help out be saying:

    Your login name is stevenlettclownface

    You have a password but it's clearly stored on your PCs cookies and you've forgotten it. BUT you CAN change your password and write the new password down somewhere....make a note of it, so that if your phone /laptop/PC or whatever you're using konks out you won't be locked out of your account (unless Google sync has stored your password which may be the case)

    Great first post :)

  • stephenlettclownface


    I absolutely agree that "Almost certainly there is more to it."

    I am where I am. And you are where you are. Neither of us has all the answers.

    With all due respect, isn't being an agnostic a form of "fence sitting"?

    Don't get me wrong, I was a fence-sitter for decades. Including 19 years when I was disfellowshipped out of the religion/snare/racket and felt enough freedom to do some research.

    Ray Franz's book was not enough to completely unlock my mind. It only deepened the doubts about what JWs were selling.

    But I was still mind trapped. If religion came up during that time I always pointed people towards JW's as being "The True Religion" even as I told them they should not look at me, I was a bad example of a witness, but one day I was going back.

    I was in a mind loop for years over 4 things:

    1. Jehovah's witnesses stand on neutrality and not going to war.

    2. Jehovah's witnesses preaching work, reaching the ENTIRE inhabited earth.

    3. They don't take money. The message is offered freely. They only accept contributions.

    4. The "Where else would I go" canard I mentioned earlier.

    I know now that all 4 of those above things were based on lies or at the very least many shades of grey.

    So yes, as said before, I dumped the religion but not the faith in the Bible's promise.

    You are interesting to me because you are still a member in good standing, but secretly don't believe a word of it.

    Can I ask? Are you a publisher, pioneer, MS, or Elder? If you hold a "position of responsibility" (as they like to call it) how do you square that with your inner beliefs?

    Are you still in because of family and friends? I can certainly relate to that.

    I pioneered briefly when I was a teen. That was back in the JW roll-up to 1975. My parents convinced me to quit high school at 16 to pioneer. Within 2 weeks I absolutely hated it. I ended up going back and finishing high school.

    I was never a servant or an Elder. I came close a couple of times to Ministerial Servant (the Eders approached me) but immediately both times pulled back on meeting attendance and service hours because I wanted no part of it. I NEVER wanted to sit in judgement of others, even from a young age. Why would anyone willingly have that hanging over their heads, it they take the appointment as an Elder or MS as seriously as they should? It was not for me.

    I'm meandering a bit here.

    But in summary, yes, I still cling to the Bible. And yes, I might be wrong in doing so.

    Are you familiar with Pascal's wager?


  • stephenlettclownface


    Thanks for the tips and the nice welcome!


  • stephenlettclownface


    I absolutely agree. Matthew 23:4 is one of my favorite scriptures on that subject.

    If you close your eyes and imagine one of the verses wherein Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, relax, and substitute in your mind the words "Governing Body" or "Watchtower" in place of the word Pharisees.

    It is as if he said those things directly about them!

    Of course, he was talking about all hypocritical religious leaders. When you are a JW you read these things and because of the indoctrination you don't apply the scriptures to the very large ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.


  • jehovaxx
    With all due respect, isn't being an agnostic a form of "fence sitting"?

    Absolutely it is. It is the course of wisdom. Unless you are absolutely sure about your interpretation of the Bible, and if anybody says that then almost certainly they are not correct.

    PIMA stabilises you. It’s the conclusion the very end result of a lifetime of deep study. If you are not where I am yet then please do more study of all so called experts from all the different religions and beliefs that you can find.

    I have several decades of deep searching and I’ve come to the satisfaction that humans just don’t know and I’m content with that.

    I still have a positive hope in the Bibles promises and I’m free of lies like eternal torture in hell.

    Im now a very old man. Think my best before date is starring me in the face. I will find out very soon what happens after death. Perhaps nothing, this is probably my most likely scenario, maybe the atheists are correct.

    But I find being physically in the JWs benefits me. Having every visit me so much is very encouraging. I do say things that some in the congregation may find cryptic. But they don’t stop to think about what I really mean.

    They tell me how sure they are in the Bibles promises. I say things like “having the hope has really helped me and to keep talking to everyone about the hope is so encouraging”

    The truth is I’m not certain about the interpretation or if the hope is even real, but I find it’s better to have that Hope being agnostic than no hope at all being atheist

  • stephenlettclownface


    WOW we have more in common than you would think at first blush.

    I too am old. I too have done LOTS of research.

    I'm not in the same place as you. I may never get there before I leave here.

    But sincerely, good on you for finding a place where your heart and mind are at peace.

    I think we are both absolutely in agreement that there are things we do not and cannot know at this point in time, and answers will likely never come in our lifetime, and we have to make peace with that.

    I'm just glad I got my mind unlocked from JWs. Good for you for doing the same.

    I'm still searching. I'll never stop.


  • nicolaou
    Jehovaxx: I have several decades of deep searching and I’ve come to the satisfaction that humans just don’t know and I’m content with that.

    I know that a 1st century virgin couldn't have given birth, that humans can't walk on water or that all non-aquatic life bar a few breeding pairs went extinct 43 centuries ago.

    Of course there are things we don't know Jehovaxx but there are plenty of things we DO know.

  • Vidiot
    jehovaxx - “…Unless you are absolutely sure about your interpretation of the Bible, and if anybody says that then almost certainly they are not correct…”

    I like that.

    The more certain you are of something, the likelier you are to be wrong about it.

  • scary21

    YOU ASKED WHY SOME OF US BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. Coffty did a forty part "why evolution is a fact" from 7 years ago. I still have it bookmarked. Welcome to the site. I can so clearly see you and your wife laughing your butts off about some of the silly things they believe and do. We remember !975. 1914 generation, overlapping generation. COO COO. Hey, we could be crying but I too chose to laugh.. Why would God have to strike the magic wand billions of times ? (99%of the population is extinct) when he really only had to do it once. or two more times if you count humans. Catholics believe in both. Retroviruses were very interesting to me.. Good luck on your journey. Oh I keep forgetting, can't say luck. or lucky...LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY lol.

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