I still disagree, Minimus.
They do what they do because people go along with it. It only takes one person to say 'Enough is enough!', and they will start to take notice. I am not going down without a fight.
xxR
Are observers allowed on Judicial Committee ? (WT Letter)
by caspian 25 Replies latest jw friends
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SheilaM
Rebel:
What we did was threaten them will legal action. So far as we know no announcement has been made. Rebel I WOULD NOT GO to the kangaroo court, you've done nothing wrong. I would let them know that you don't agree and will not be attending.
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rebel
But if I don't go, my husband will go mad! He thinks I am being too opinionated as it is - this will only make it worse.
PLUS - if I don't go, I will be disfellowshipped in my absence. I have already been told this by someone else from another congregation. I can't win either way.
xxR
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sandy
Well Rebel,
If you want peace in your marriage you should go.
There is no rule book that is handed out to the R/F about JC procedures. Is there? Is there anything in the publications that says if you do not attend they reserve the right to DF you?
I would take Sheila's advice and threaten them with legal action if they DF you without you having a JC meeting. Tell them you are emotionally stressed and you just cannot deal with them right now.
Then say to them you already asked Jehovah for forgiveness and that is all you can handle right now.
Then bring out the scripture (I don't know the exact one) that talks about the Pharisees placing heavy burdens on the people and how Jesus did not approve of that. Tell them you feel burdened by their pressure to attend the JC meeting.
Why are you being called for a JC meeting?
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minimus
Rebel....Say, "enough is enough" and I'm sorry to tell ya, that means nothing to them. The only possibility that you have is doing what Sheila said and that's to threaten them with a legal suit. Since the elders are personally the ones that could get sued, they might not be so aggresive but still, they might not care about your threats. Look at all those associated with Silentlambs; they still got DF'd although they threated suits......Good luck.
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95stormfront
Well Rebel, If you want peace in your marriage you should go.
Unless she has a drastic change in her attitude and falls in lock step behind the organization, just how will going improve her marriage? Sure, this will probably please the dub hub in the short term but unless she's willing to change her course of conduct his pleasure will be short lived. The Elders insistence that they meet is not an indication that they or her husband are interested in understanding her point of view, rather, though they will say otherwise, the whole process is designed to instill fear and guilt for going against the organization and to give them a final opportunity to browbeat you into submission.
Rebel, you're in a classic catch-22 situation. Go and you give indication that you subject yourself to their authority, don't go and dub hub is pissed and you're summarily DF'd, Adjust your thinking and you loose the self-respect for yourself that you're in desperation trying to hold onto.
Whatever you decide to do, I suggest you not let them belligerently bully you around, hang tough, and be be true to yourself and your convictions, and let the chips fall where they may.
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Dansk
Rebel,
Why play to their rules? Seriously, unless you are prepared to repent - and I don't know what it is you're accused of, nor is it any of my business - and promise to abide by their rules you'll be DF'd. If it were me I'd tell them I no longer recognise their authority.
You mentioned in another post that you had a solicitor friend who was prepared to help you. What does he think? This has got to be a contravention of your human rights, not being allowed to have witnesses or legal counsel. If you attend the meeting it suggests you agree to their terms. DON'T GO!
Love,
Dansk - a Rebel supporter
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jst2laws
Hello Rebel
If you need to keep peace with you husband then you may have to go. You are allowed to bring witnesses in your defence. To do this they have to tell you what the charges are in advance and who the witnesses against you are. Most committees will not do this mostly because they are a bunch of buffoons who do not know the procedures themselves.
If they have two witnesses against you they can take action even if you do not attend. Lack of attendance is not an automatic DFing. They can procede without you only if they have the two witnesses or a confession from you. If you decide to attend and they do not tell you the charges in advance and the witnesses against you, then you can meet with them initially on the date above to get the charges, listen to the testemony against you, and then tell them you need the meeting to adjurn so you can prepare your defence and contact your witnesses (even if you do not have any in mind) They will tell you that you cannot do that, that the issue will be considered then and there. You can remind them that if they do not allow you witnesses in your behalf and do not handle the procedings according to society proceedure you will appeal their decision so they best do it right. You may have to play theocratic hard ball with them. They are going to piously destroy your life if you play submissive with them.
Don't give them ANY information you do not have to. Give brief and simple answers. Refuse leading or biased questions. Stay calm, and demand THEYmake their case against you.
I feel so sorry for you having to deal with this alone. My wife lasted 30 minutes and walked out. I rather enjoyed the 3 1/2 hours as well as the following meeting. I used the above suggestions and one elder finally interupted and said "aren't we just playing a game here?". I replied "yes, but it is your game played by WT rules, and if I loose you kill me." Their rules require two witness or a confession. Make them play by their own rules.
If you want to talk more about this I will be glad to help- [email protected] and maybe my wife could be of some support too since she recently went through it. [email protected]
Jst2laws
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sandy
Jst2Laws,
Excellent advice and information.
Is this information that the R/F get through publications or WT mags?
I wish I was a fly on the wall during your JC meeting.
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jst2laws
Sandy,
Most of it is from the elder's KMS book. You can view it here, but it is like reading the talmud.
http://home2.inet.tele.dk/carloc/index.htm
The site below has an example of the hand written notes we were required to add. (upper left)
http://www.geocities.com/Elders_Book/2index.html
The elders assigned to a judicial committee were required to read chapters 5a, 5b, 5c before the meeting. Only the most consciencious ones really did it.
This book was always being updated by word of mouth at Kingdom Ministry Schools the elders had to attend every couple years. The instructors would dictated changes slowly as the brothers wrote the changes in the margins of their books. WT letters from time to time were referenced to update the old book. It was a mess to keep up with.
I hope Rebel is OK with what is happening here.
Jst2laws