Mathematically Measuring Evolution.

by towerwatchman 205 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    WhatshallIcallmyself

    "Thanks for all that information on dating rocks, Please note, we are not discussing geology, but Cytochrome c. In this discussion the age of rocks is irrelevant" - TWM
    It is very relevant to this discussion because you said:
    "What this points to is that all living creatures appeared on the fossil record at about the same time."
    You suggest that Cytochrome c infers all living creatures appeared at the same time (I assume in an attempt to justify a belief in the genesis creation account) yet the geology conclusively shows this is wrong. So yes, showing you how other branches of science contradict this thought of yours is relevant.

    I see the problem. Should not be. "What this points to is that all living creatures appeared on the fossil record at about the same time." Rather should read. . "What this points to is that all living creatures appeared on the earth at about the same time."


    thankyou.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    Towerwatchman,

    No one believes you here. Your actions belie all your claims.


  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    WhatshallIcallmyself

    Have they? Who cares, I was referring to the critique of the particular book that contains the basis for the argument that you used in your OP. What I gave you was sufficient for you to question the basis for your argument. What I gave you explained what your author actually wrote and why what he found was to be expected using evolutionary Theory. In other words it removes the premise for your OP. Your beliefs are based on straw men.

    Notice one common thread on this forum. Rebuttal keep focusing on the most insignificant point made on the post. Again is that all I posted. I read the critique, very subjective, but not much on Cytochrome C.

    Again I will post what the author had to say about it. Maybe you can answer my question.

    Denton makes a show of cytochrome-c amino acid substitution numbers appearing to divide all life into typologically distinct classes. But this kind of division is to be expected, considering that we derived the numbers from contemporary organisms, and not from fossilized organisms. [talkorigins.org]

    One has to ask, if we are measuring the difference of cytochrome-c amino acid in the evolutionary hierarchy why do we have to use fossilized samples vs the latest samples?

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay
    You are probably living in your mother’s house as a basement dweller, living out your existence in the virtual world!

    Yes, that is what a really successful and happy person who holds degrees and has enough money to live off until they die would write back, yes.

    And I don't believe in character assassination like David Jay. This will show him!


  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    And just to set the record straight--I live in my grandmother's house in her attic...and for your information also spend time on my iPad winning prizes playing Candy Crush!

    Boom! I sure schooled you!


  • Rainbow_Troll
    Rainbow_Troll
    How about addressing the main topic, the OP.

    I thought I did, but okay. In your OP you claim that there is no correlation between differences in cytochrome c amino configurations and the evolutionary tree and then, ignoring all the other genetic and fossil evidence, you conclude that this disproves evolution. You really don't see the fallacy here?

    That's kind of like the Holocaust revisionist who cites a few examples of jews who lied about their experiences during the Nazi regime while ignoring the massive amount of physical evidence and the testimony thousands of nonjews concerning the historicity of the death camps.

    Just because there is no correlation between speciation and cytochrome c mutation, it does not follow that evolution is false. Some genes mutate while others stay the same over eons of time. Genes are distinct. It's not an all or nothing deal. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Maybe because you're just a troll who likes to argue? If so, I can respect that; but at least put some work into it.

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    LoveUniHateExams

    God is sovereign, He can create as He wishes; He chose to create in six days [emphasis mine] - this is not supported by the fossil record.

    Be honest, was this given as evidence or personal opinion. Hint = I was asked for my opinion.

    Darwin places the ‘Creator’ at the beginning, and it was He that ‘breathed’ the laws of natural selection into each living creature. Seems he was attempting to graft his theory into the creation account - no, Darwin was not attempting to do that. Darwin just didn't know much about abiogenesis, that's all. 'Creator' in this instance merely means the unknown, nothing more.

    Read again.

    There is grandeur in this [natural selection] view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. [Darwin]

    But maybe these other quotes made by Darwin would help

    "I often had to run very quickly to be on time, and from being a fleet runner was generally successful; but when in doubt I prayed earnestly to God to help me, and I well remember that I attributed my success to the prayers and not to my quick running, and marvelled how generally I was aided."

    "I liked the thought of being a country clergyman. Accordingly I read with care Pearson on the Creed and a few other books on divinity; and as I did not then in the least doubt the strict and literal truth of every word in the Bible, I soon persuaded myself that our Creed must be fully accepted."

    Sorry it is an accepted fact, Darwin believed in God.

    What is evolution based on? Drawing together desperate lines of observational evidence and presenting an argument from a novel interpretation of that evidence - this is what makes evolution so strong, so solid, the multiple lines of evidence.

    Not multiple lines of experimental, repeatable evidence but observational evidence, and presenting an argument from a novel interpretation of that evidence.

    Example: Pakicetus Inachus to a modern whale based on the arrangement of cusp on molar teeth. Positioning and folding of the ear bones within the skull.

    Kinda the opposite of what you've done. You've chosen to focus on cytochrome C (an apparent anomaly), ignoring the massive amounts of evidence for evolution. You believe in a creator God but there's no evidence for His existence.

    This massive amount of evidence is subjective and unmeasurable. Cytochrome C is measurable. It is not an anomaly but evidence that macro evolution never took place.

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    'Jesus verified everything he said was truth by means of his resurrection, including his statement that the Old testament was true.' -towerwatchman

    And therein lies the problem. This was listed as your main argument.

    And from that circular reasoning you go searching for "scientific" evidence to prove that founding assumption.

    And after finding one piece of evidence that seems compelling to you, you ignore the many other lines of evidence in proof of evolution, even going so far as to chasten posters who point these out as 'not addressin the OP."

    For your sake, I really hope you are a troll, because otherwise your ability to reason through a subject leaves much to be desired and leaves you open to any kind of propaganda.

    Spock out.

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    Rainbow-troll

    I thought I did, but okay. In your OP you claim that there is no correlation between differences in cytochrome c amino configurations and the evolutionary tree and then, ignoring all the other genetic and fossil evidence, you conclude that this disproves evolution. You really don't see the fallacy here?

    No, because cytochrome c is a means of measuring the differences across the evolutionary tree. Any other means of measuring the difference is more subjective than anything.

    Just because there is no correlation between speciation and cytochrome c mutation, it does not follow that evolution is false. Some genes mutate while others stay the same over eons if time. Genes are distinct. It's not an all or nothing deal. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Maybe because you're just a troll who likes to argue? If so, I can respect that; but at least put some work into it.

    The problem with this argument is that if cytochrome c did not mutate then there should be no difference. If mutate slowly over time we should see the pattern, but we don’t.

    As to arguing and troll I notice something rather funny. You and several others here call me a troll who likes to argue. But notice it originates from you and them calling me names, attempting to push buttons in order to get me mad. Why? Can any of you hold a descent adult exchange of ideas? Or are posters here accustomed to taking the last position of ignorance and attach my character. Either way I have thick skin.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    Evidence Towerwatchman is a troll.

    Quote:

    I have thick skin.

    1. Trolls have thick skin.


    Quote:

    Can any of you...attach my character.

    2. See above photo.

    Quote:

    Can any of you hold a descent adult exchange of ideas?

    3. Trolls prefer an exchange where descent instead of decent discussion is preferred. (Trolls spell badly as well while claiming to be well-educated and rich.)


Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit