Notes I drafted for a local JW at a cart

by Doug Mason 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    In recent weeks, a grizzled old man, obviously harmless, has been engaging with a nice lady as she regularly stands by her cart displaying Watchtower material.

    On Monday, she eagerly wanted to know what this old man thought of the book she gave him, "What Does the Bible Really Teach?". When this old man posed some questions, she was very keen for him to write them down.

    She also promised to provide facts that earthquakes proved we are living in the Last Days.

    Anyway, to make a short story longer, the old man drafted questions and observations on the topics that were covered.

    Would you please criticise the stuff that this old man has drafted for his next encounter. Any help, anything at all, is most keenly looked for. The idea is to hit hard while the door is ajar, even slightly.


  • jwfacts

    Are you planning to give her that document in all its colourful glory? Quite impressive.

    Have you asked her what specifically convinced her it is the truth? You can frame it that every religious person thinks their religion is the one, what is it about JWs that convinces her. The reason I ask is because you document questions both the Bible and JW doctrine. Is it the Bible or Watchtower that you could more easily undermine?

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    So far, a harmless old man has had a chat with a JW. Handing her this will trip all of the security devices that the WT has implanted in her mind and instead of a nice old man, an apostate bogeyman will appear.

    If you don't mind the long game, just one or two questions combined with a puzzled look, will probably go farther.

    But it's your planned assault of the WT's mine mazed lady so go as you will.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Yes, i plan to print it in colour. It has been my experience that creating even the slightest doubt quickly causes the shutters to be drawn, so i want to go in strongly while the opportunity exists. Softly, softly? I don't know.

    I am extremely conscious that I have covered a lot of territory and that I will reveal what I am.

    My overall objective is to free people from religion, to show that the Bible, while upholding many good principles, is based on ancient superstitions and on the supernatural, the mythical. None of the Bible is a literal historical documentary. It uses events to promote ideas, just like Preachers do today in their homilies. The Gospels are religiously constructed to reflect the situation of each group -- and they lived decades after the "Jesus event".

    There were any number of claimant Messiahs at the time and Paul, who went into the desert for 14 years, created his ideas with claims that he spoke directly with Jesus.

    Paul was the earliest NT writer; the others followed and copied. Did Paul create Christianity by selecting Jesus (Joshua) out of all the claimant Messiahs?

    Is God a Christian?

    Is God a Roman Catholic? Does God only love people whose doctrines and beliefs are accurate? Does God offer "salvation" on the basis of one's theology, eschatology, soteriology, and Christology? If so, what is the "pass mark" for that test?

    Why can no one agree on the reason Jesus had to die? There is any number of models. Augustine's lasted almost 1000 years before being gazumped by Anselm, then Abelaard, then Aquinas, etc., etc. And does it matter what model one has?


  • redpilltwice

    Very good questions Doug, food for thought (and not only for the WT lady by the cart as your "overall objective" makes clear ).

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    OK. I have slightly modified the text on page 3 (minimal impact) and I have added pages 17 ("Creations") and 18 ("The nature of nature").


  • smiddy3

    I would ask her to show you a scripture in the New Testament where Christians are instructed to be witnesses of Jehovah , just one.

    When she can`t do that point out that their are about 20 scriptures in the new Testament instructing Christians to be witnesses of Jesus Christ.

  • Splash

    In your creation section I would use the genesis verse about the stars being placed there for signs and seasons, then ask how they could have even been seen from Earth if there was a water canopy over the Earth.

  • StarryNight9

    Perhaps an ethical/moral section? I'm thinking from the female perspective here. Stats, science, and history are great, but connecting on an emotional level can have more impact - especially if she doesn't have the educational background to understand all the science stuff. It might be fairly easy for a fellow JW to bamboozle her with JW literature/facts afterwards. A moral/emotional issue can't be gotten rid of so easily. I'd start right off with all the people Jehovah has killed and the atrocities he promoted (according to his own book). How many people has Satan supposedly killed by comparison? If this whole thing is a test to prove we can't govern ourselves, why has he interfered so much (tower of Babel, the flood, "a chosen people", a book of instructions)? It's simply not a fair test. It's like the JW analogy of a student thinking he can do better than the teacher, so the teacher gives him the chance to prove it... but the teacher keeps killing the other students and telling them to follow his own rules (hardly "hands off").

    Asking the moral questions in-person in a confused/sincere manner gets you brownie points... Other people are right about the mental shut-down if you lose your "innocent" cover. Perhaps wait with your "innocent" objections until she brings up each subject? Moral quandaries bother the mind for far longer than anything else. I think Jehovah-directed atrocities are the strongest contender for a lasting impression.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Thank you for your comments and advice. I am genuinely grateful.

    I will no doubt be proven wrong, but my strategy is for this JW lady to carry my thoughts into their rabbit warren. My aim is for the bigger fish to be challenged (even though I will not be a witness to that).

    This JW lady is always at her location at the same time each week, and we have chatted several times, quite innocently, To me, this means she will continue to stand at her allocated place at her allocated times. She should not be able to run away from me in the succeeding weeks, like a rabbit startled in the headlights.

    That's my theory, but tell me where my assumptions are wrong.

    I am not good on the emotional analyses, so I would like to know if a JW would really be moved by hearing of the murders carried out in Yahweh's Name. They are fearfully conscious that Yahweh is about to slaughter billions.

    I used to have a list of NT proof texts that spoke of witnessing Jesus' Name. But this assumes a position on Isaiah 43:10 that I no longer hold to.

    I now believe that Isaiah 43:10 stands in the context of condemnation. The Chapters beginning with Isa 40 lie in the context of the neo-Babylonian Captivity and form part of the political push by the Yahweh-alone Party.

    In the overall context of Isaiah 43:10, the (deutero-Isaiah) writer says that although they had witnessed Yahweh and his greatness, nevertheless the people remained disobedient, and that is the reason they deserved to be cast aside.

    As a tangential comment, when the Watchtower speaks of the "message" going into "all the world", for those Middle Eastern NT writers, "the world" spoke of their known lands. Paul wrote that all nations had been reached in his own time (Rom 10:17-18//Ps 19:4; Romans 1:8) and this is confirmed by pseudo-Paul (Col. 1:6, 23).


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