Could the JW's survive without elders?

by JH 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Francois,
  

  Hillary, you funny. And way off track.

  I do not believe that I am 'off track' Francois. One could only be sure that they 'did not want responsibilities' if they actually refused them when offered. I see this group of persons very much in the minority.As I have shown above in Brummie's post, bluster and a plastic sense of humilty also plays a part in this whole scenario.

  I do believe that many of the motivational feelings and issues that we had as JW's are fairly quickly forgotten once we leave. Many of us would also would like to think that we were smarter than the others and not quite as duped by the WTS as they were, not always true. Again this reminds me of so many life histories that you read about in the WTS & Awake where the person at age sixteen argued the Trinity issue with his local Bishop and having defeated him in debate, wandered off and finally discovered the Non-Trinitarian JW's. How this scenario could have been repeated so often throughout Europe in the 1920's is a mystery to me!

  The people here who observe that the WT uses you up, sucks you dry, and discards you are right, you be wrong

  Thsi statement has nothing to do with my argument, and is not something that I disagree with.

  HS
• 

  Simon

  A year or two before we left there was a big emphasis at the circuit assemblies for brothers to reach out. They said they were short of qualified men.

  Whether this was a typical 'do more' propaganda effort I don't know but they do seem to lack good people who can really lead and take decisions. It's their own fault - they have cultivated an organisation where people follow orders and no one is really going to volunteer for that sort of job unless you are the neddist of flanders.
• 

  hillary_step

  Simon,

  A year or two before we left there was a big emphasis at the circuit assemblies for brothers to reach out. They said they were short of qualified men.

  Yes, this statement has wandered the decades and is nothing new. There are of course thousands of male JW's who are not terribly keen to preach. To qualify in any position of responsibility you were expected to do the ten hours. If this had not been a requirement, thousands more would have accepted positions of elders and servants and then as XJW's would no doubt have pretended that they did not really want these appointments....lol

  I think that Lady Lee's comments below, are much nearer the truth than those who pretend that they actively avoided responsibilities as JW's due to some special gift of unique integrity that they possessed.

  ...............many of the men in these groups are not all that successful or don't feel it in their outside lives. The group and especialy responsibility within the group is one of the few ways that men can gain any "status". I know my ex fits this perfectly While he wasn't an eager beaver he certainly lapped up the spotlight when he had it. I think the WTS will always have people like him willing to take on the responsibility and not see the load they are taking on. They will consider it an honor because it is the only "honor" they get.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  heathen

  I think the elder arrangement is technically unscriptual anyway . The bible does say older men but just says ascribe them a double honor or something like that . I don't think you really have a choice as to being an elder it's just based on age . The office of overseer is mentioned as being something that a person would have to apply for .
• 

  DannyBear

  Hillary has cut to the chase on this one.

  Unless things have changed since I was an elder, no one would even be considered or presented to the Wts for 'rubber stamping' approval, UNLESS they were a candidate by their very actions and demeanor.

  So for anyone to assert that they really did not want an appointment is denying the very process. Active field service, regular meeting attendance, appropriate jw appearance and grooming, willingness to follow instructions, which one of the above criteria could a canidate not comply and still receive an appointment? None sorry boys.

  Danny

  An announced appointment from the platform is to a jw male.....not only a natural progression, but a prerequisite for any kind of self worth as a practicing jw male.
• 

  hurt

  There are good samples of guys who never did want any 'responsibilities': I know someone who did refuse to be appointed; he had an average of 30 hrs/month. Got responsibilities after being in for 8 months; gave wonderful talks (his first talk as an Unbaptized Publisher was simply too good...), did several other things, but refused to be appointed an MS; twice. And no, he knew no apostates then. I should ask him why now.
• 

  Lady Lee

  We seem to have two questions going on here

  Could the JWs survive without elders? which I previously answered - I think they will as long as they can find people who want to feel special.

  But the second question is

  Did you "reach out" or were you seeking responsibility. Many here have said no. I can understand that. I know a lot of men who stayed just a shade the wrong side of being considered for responsibility. It might have been work or not enough hours in service or not taking the lead. Some out-right refuse when offered.

  Qualification for responsibility was simply being male and doing what everyone else was told to do - meetings, service, crap. They don't have to look for it or do anything special - just be good little JW and work you butt off.
• 

  Pork Chop

  Hilary I believe you're right. I only knew one guy that turned down an appointment. The reality is that most men want the position because it's an affirmation that they're doing the right thing. Course you're swimming upstream here because most don't want to hear that.
• 

  Pork Chop

  As to the original question, you always have to have someone in charge, whatever you call them, and you will never run out of people willing to be in charge. The question is really kind of meaningless, no offense intended. The Catholics might be short of priests but I haven't noticed them shutting up shop.
• 

  Lady Lee

  Let's face it a man has to have a pretty darned good reason to turn it down without winding up marked in some way