A question for those churchgoing ones...forgiveness (page 7)

berylblue

Now tell me why would God want to save a person who does not and will not except his existance. Am I supposed to know you if I never met you or never read any of your post here? That was just insane what you just said...

FACILE ARGUMENT ALERT!!!! See below....

Now, I gotta admit the following is kind of lame....can anyone help me out and expound on what I'm trying to convey? Thanks,

Rosemarie

Fair question. I think others have responded much more eloquently than I could ever possibly hope to do. Because God is love. Because God reads hearts. Is God so petty that he only cares for those who believe in him? Even I do good for persons who don't know who the hell I am, and never will. (Charity donations.) The recipients of my money will never know who I am, and it doesn't matter to me. I do care about them, regardless of whether or not they know of my existence. And I'll continue to help. Really don't give a damn what they do know or don't know about me. Or what they say about me (in generalizations, such as "no-good selfish rich people, why can't they do more for me?" ). Let me tell you, I can be one shallow b*tch. Now if even I still care for those who benefit from my "charity".......

I have more on this, kind of germinating. I am having a terrible time expressing myself articulately these days. Just know you'll all be waiting breathlessly for my next post (if I ever do get the mental capacity to formulate it.)

Rosemarie

berylblue

It is fairly clear as to who recieves spiritual growth and who doesn't. There's no big mystery of "who is going to be pardoned and not killed" - I think your writing shows that you're still considering the jw beastgod

Maybe for everyone else on this board, but not for me!!!! Please keep in mind that I'm frigging brain dead these days (long sob story, most of you have heard it ad nauseam already). Respectfully, I don't understand what you meant.

Rosemarie

jgnat

Beryl, your writing is pretty good. I think I know where you are going with that idea. If I, as an imperfect human being, can give love, even anonymously, surely God knows what He is doing, too?

I had a revelation like that when my boy was a teen. "God Loves You" is lame for a depressed young man having trouble fitting in. My love, however, was immediate and right there. I was the best example of God's love my son was going to ever understand, so I better do a good job of it.

A Paduan

Berylblue,

My apologies - my post was a response to the original post of the thread, by Ashi - it seemed to me that he was still struggling with the jw a concept of the overbearing terrible god who judges, and judges, and then does some judging (and the killing an' all).

I was pointing out that I find the concept of judgement about going down shute A or B one day after death to be blind to what's already going on around you - it is simply how it already is - people like to either see themselves in the light and know the truth of themselves, or in the dark - preferring a lie about how they are - people who prefer the untruth inevitably express it outwardly, as do people who prefer truth about themselves.

( And this is the judgment , that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.) Jwism is anti-truth / anti-light to the extent of taking physical measures for refusing to hear or even listen, barring the input aside from the lie which is preferred.

--------------------

To your post Beryl,

I thought that was a really good analogy about not being concerned with recognition from those who you would do kind for - a spirit of goodness.

I have more on this, kind of germinating

I hope that you're both fed and stocked for planting after your watering or threshing efforts.

You know that chaff is good for tree mulch? It keeps the water in for a while but it does break down.

paduan

Francois

Stinky - There is at least one more way to heal, or at least to begin the healing process consequent upon being abused. And that way is confronting the abuser.

The confronting can take many forms. You can get the abuser in a situation from which he can't escape you. Like in a fully fueled automobile traveling cross-country at 70 mph.

Some abusers can be locked in a room with you. Or be in a room with you and another person big and strong enough to prevent their leaving.

You can write a letter.

There are even ways to confront an abuser who is now dead.

All these ways work.

The technique I used was to write a letter. I tend to do lots better if I have time and repose to think carefully and thus not be carried away by the emotions of the moment. My letter was 17 legal pages, typed, single spaced. And I wrote it and let it age on the shelf for weeks while I pondered it. And sure enough, I thought of other stuff to add. So I added the other stuff and let it age again. And I added again. I did this several times until I knew I had covered all the bases.

Consider this. If you forgive someone absent getting the truth out, absent confrontation, I don't believe you receive the most benefit from it, and it's for your benefit that you're writing the confrontation letter to begin with.

My technique worked, I can tell you that. The abuser reacted like a hot poker had been shoved up his ass.

There is a book entitled Toxic Parents that covers this letter writing technique and it covers the possible reactions to a confrontation letter. The first thing you can expect is denial. Prepare yourself for it. You might even mention it in your confrontation letter. Let them, him, her, whatever, know you are expecting denial. Blunts their effort when you can name it before they do it.

Frankly, I don't see how any forgiveness can take place absent confrontation. And besides, this confrontation letter is not about the abuser and forgiveness. Has nothing to do with forgiveness. It has to do with you making yourself a well person. It is not for the purpose of helping the abuser in any way. You don't have to be polite, gentle, withold punches, or any such thing. This is your way of handling and resolving being abused as a helpless child, and now you're going to come crashing down like a ton of bricks.

Go for it.

berylblue

I had a revelation like that when my boy was a teen. "God Loves You" is lame for a depressed young man having trouble fitting in. My love, however, was immediate and right there. I was the best example of God's love my son was going to ever understand, so I better do a good job of it.

Beautitful, jgnat.

R

berylblue

Paduan,

Thanks for your response. I'm too hyper today to make any sense of it, but I will come back to it when I calm down to try to understand what you meant.

Rosemarie

Borgellia

woooooohoooooooo!

Hello everybody I am a newbie this is my first post. (how did I make this red?) Will somebody tell me how to put a cool picture next to my name? The Skull & Rose makes such a statement!

On the serious side; one thing I have learned about forgivness is that it is very demensional. One aspect of forgivness is how we "get over it" as Dr Phill would say. That means for some like me can no longer hate the perpetrator, I no longer plan devious revenge, I no longer wonder what exactly rat poison tastes like in tea with lemon. I threw away the "100 Ways To Screw With Your Ex" book. We learn to let it go and heal. That is one way of forgivness. Does that mean I forgive someone who has hurt me and is not sorry for it? NO. Of course not. That person if they are not sorry will do it again. That is where the "repentance" comes in. If a person is truly sorry for the crime whatever it is, it will show in their acts. Untill then I forgive in my heart, but don't even consider going back for more abuse.

I never try to know the mind of God when it comes to such matters. (wow, how did this change back to normal) From what the Borg does with it's over 23,000 alleged pedophiles in it's secret database, it is clear there is no repentance there. I trust God with their futures. Yes, I do believe there is a special place for them. Satan may end up with some new babes. They are rotten fruit from rotten trees.

I know that we all have one thing in common-The Borg. I know that we should all be tolerant of the fact that we all suffered in some way because of it. I know that we all didn't follow the same path afterwards, but we still are bound by what we experienced together, and should be tolerant of that fact. (where's the spell check)

jgnat

Hi, Borgellia, and a big welcome to the board!

A question for those churchgoing ones...forgiveness

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