Judge: Elders NOT required to report abuse (page 6)

Cassiline

Isn't it wierd how the society spends all this time tearing down the catholic traditions like confession, then hides behind the same privileges that those customs have created?
CZAR

Amen Czar! adding to that, "We only wanted a library card".

sf

Yea okay Alan, I suppose an email to the man is a no-go too. What a lame excuse that was; but good try!

So does that mean you aren't even gonna try to tell the courts all you know about this orgs corruption and deceit that kills? Okay Alan. As you wish. I mean, if I knew what you knew and had it in writing, I'd be working hard to shout it out to the courts to save these kids. But that's just me Alan.

Oh, and is that a nay on the FOXNEWS interview too?

You really didn't address much in my post except the part about not talking to the judge and telling him what you know and why this ruling SUX!

Hawk...glad you got that cleared up about who posted what. I just want to know from you too hawk, when will you tell the courts all you know of wtbts deception, corruption and lethal policies? I mean, you do speak in front of these so-called judges, right? WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY TELL THEM WHEN YOU FINALLY GET THE PODIUM? What is it that you 'declare', as you declare here? Guys? Is it incentives you desire? Or what? What is holding you and the 'others' back? What is it you want or need? What will it take to get the job done?

sKally ...DO MORE! Klass

mizpah

One should not be too surprised that the Watchtower has in recent years embraced the causes of other religious institutions and professed a similarity to them even though the Watchtower has identified as them as "Babylon the Great:"

1. In the Bonham, Tx dispute over the ownership of the Kingdom Hall, the Society's lawyers argued that the Watchtower was "hierarchial" in structure.

2. In the Jimmy Swaggart case in California, the Watchtower submitted its "amicus curiae" (friend of the court) to support the non-taxation of religious literature. Thus, they joined others like the Scientologists to support the Jimmy Swaggart ministries.

3. In this recent case, the lawyers for the Watchtower Society argue that elders have clergy exemption privileges under "confidentiality rule" and the sacredness of the confessional in their judicial meetings.

It seems that the Watchtower doesn't mind becoming bedfellows with other religions when its own interests are a priority.

Noumenon

This puts elders in the same category as any common priest of Christendom. You visit the priest to confess secret sins, and the priest is not required to divulge anything, even the most heinous crimes, just like client-confidentiality a lawyer has with his client. Does this mean the elders and the Organisation is becoming absorbed into Christendom?

How can an elder get around such a moral dilemma? How can they live with their own conscience? If I was an elder I would immediately step down if someone confessed to me they have molested a child and yet I was not supposed to tell the police, and then I would go tell the police.

mizpah

Elders and other representatives of the Watchtower Society are not encouraged to think and to act for themselves. If they do, they can be accused of "running ahead of the organization" and are in danger of being reprimanded or disfellowshipped. (Consider the example of Bill Bowen.) Sadly, the Society has lost some of its brightest and most qualified people in recent years because of its restrictive measures. (Consider Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap.) The elders are more often interested in holding their own positions within the congregations than they are in the welfare of their own "brothers." If the exceptional elder makes the effort to become personally involved with the members, he could be accused of trying to "exalt himself" or even of "creating divisions" within the congregation.

The Watchtower Society wants absolute control over its members. The elders become the enforcers of this policy for the Society. This is why there is an underlying atmosphere of fear in the organization. This is why one brother will often betray another in the name of "keeping the organization clean." The "love" that Jehovah's Witnesses profess for one another is based solely on loyalty to the organization. Anyone who has left the organization experiences the superficiality of that "love."

But the love of Christians is based upon their personal relationship with God and with one another.

Mr. Kim

So, the judge is saying: It is " open season " on children, abuse, etc.?

I'll bet there are some elders smiling over that ruling!!

Just don't know what to believe anymore!!!!!!!!!!

Euphemism

Who the hell is this Judge Groff and why does he get all the abuse cases?

reporter

The "love" that Jehovah's Witnesses profess for one another is based solely on loyalty to the organization. Anyone who has left the organization experiences the superficiality of that "love."

It's love of THEEEE-o-CRATic WARfay-re!

Joyzabel

*scratching head and wondering why the WTBTs defends itself in the "don't have to report" policy, when they state to their followers that they encourage reporting abuse!

loveis

BTTT for further discussion, as we await the outcome of the appeal.

(The "master thread" collecting a wealth of online info about this case, in one convenient place: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/89539/1.ashx

Don't miss the audio of the October 20, 2004 oral argument session, if you have not already heard it (see above thread).

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Judge: Elders NOT required to report abuse

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