Fully Gifted Creation, No God of Gaps

by D wiltshire 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    I’m leaning more and more towards a fully gifted creation. I think God is so wise that when he first began "this" universe that he endowed it with tremendous organization potentiality, that would not require him to step in and guide it or help it along to produce intelligent life.

    Look at how scientist tell us all the elements are made in the stars, though nuclear fusion suns not only give us light and heat but also produce more complicated elements. Physicists tell us of wonderful self organization on the atomic and subatomic level. The theory of Chaos is changing our idea of what is truly chaotic, we now know what used to be considered chaotic manifest tremendous order, but at a higher level than observable naturally, but thanks to computers we are in the last couple of decades getting to see it.

    I think Gensis1 and 2 are inspired of God, but not in the way most fundys do. It seems to me, that perhaps God inspired someone with a vision of the creative process, and that person taught it to his family and friends in the language and concepts he knew, it was simple because his culture was simple; express in simple terms, to a culture that had a very limited understanding of things we now take as a matter of fact. If this vision was given before writing was invented then it was passed on to other to memorize and they in turn taught it to their sons and daughters whom they in turn memorized. Then latter perhaps through Moses or some one else it became part of the Scriptures. I think many Christians make a big mistake in how they interpret the first two chapters in Genesis, for they don’t take the above into account and expect it to be too literal. All the Scriptures have parts in it that are poems, stories, and metaphors, that were written in the style of the culture at that time, it was common to say things a certain way, that today if taken literally will lead us to a wrong understanding because our culture is vastly different.

    I therefore see nothing in the Genesis account that would rule out a Fully Gifted Creation that would not require God to bridge the gaps (God of the gaps) to help matter become intelligent life. I think it is reasonable for Christians to conclude also that this universe is teaming with life of much more variety than exist here on Earth.

  • rem
    rem
    I think Gensis1 and 2 are inspired of God, but not in the way most fundys do.

    Do you also believe that these other Creation stories are inspired by God just like Genesis?

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html#nonchris

    Why or why not?

    I do agree that your conclusion, though not falsifiable, does make the most sense when it comes to positing a creator or creators.

    rem

  • starScream
    starScream

    D wiltshire,

    Look at how scientist tell us all the elements are made in the stars, though nuclear fusion suns not only give us light and heat but also produce more complicated elements.

    Their conlusions on that subject are based on scientific evidence and are quite provable. We even have particle accerlators on earth that can produce some elements.

    Physicists tell us of wonderful self organization on the atomic and subatomic level.

    and that self organization is so broad based and easy in molecular chemistry that it does not naturally or randomly produce what is so specifically necessary for life. All human intervention has been completely unsuccessful in helping this "fully gifted creation" produce life through the natural processes required.

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Rem,

    I clicked on your address and took a brief look.

    I can't say with certainty but, I would not rule out that God has given visions to other people not of hebrew decent. If he did as time went on, I'm sure it got corrupted. After all he is their creator too, why should he not comunicate in some way fro there good.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    D wiltshire,

    What evidence or reason do you have that God inspired the Genesis account?

    B

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Logan,

    D wiltshire, What evidence or reason do you have that God inspired the Genesis account?

    While no one can produce evidence that absolutely proves or disproves God existance. I will say the same about Genesis as well. My reasons for beleiving genesis are: God does exist because of the vast order i see and that something doesn't come from nothing. So when I see the order of creation as found in Genesis matching the order that Scientist say occured it gives me reason to beleive. While it is not conclusive it is sufficient for me.

    Star,

    . All human intervention has been completely unsuccessful in helping this "fully gifted creation" produce life through the natural processes required.
    While that may be true, it is not the same as billions of years that is need for this fully gifted creation to bring about what a timeless God foreodained.
  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Dwilt

    So, you are basically saying that god made the universe so that it could organise itself into gas clouds, stars, planets, ecosystems, animals, humans etc. Is that correct? Now what if the universe started out w the potential, as you say, but there was not a god as we commonly concieve it? What if there was just preexisting potential which separated itself into positive and negative, or started vibrating, creating highs and lows (waves) that look like the background noise of the universe. That is, the universe went from a state of being isotropic ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=isotropic) toward a chaos pattern, then grew from there. That illiminates god. Not that i'm atheist, or anything. Maybe gods evolve too.

    SS

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    D wiltshire,

    So when I see the order of creation as found in Genesis matching the order that Scientist say occured it gives me reason to beleive.

    How so? I don't see the order matching at all. Genesis 1 has light appearing before the sun is created and birds and fish being created at the same time -- even though fish evolved, then reptiles (and possibly some mammels), then birds. But Genesis says that all land-creatures were created after the birds, which contradicts the fossil record.

    Plus, in chapter 2 of Genesis we have a totally different account of creation which has man being created before all the other animals and plants!

    So in no way does the Genesis account -- or should I say accounts -- in Genesis match the scientific findings of the fossil record.

    Bradley

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    starScream,

    that self organization is so broad based and easy in molecular chemistry that it does not naturally or randomly produce what is so specifically necessary for life. All human intervention has been completely unsuccessful in helping this "fully gifted creation" produce life through the natural processes required.

    Modern evolutionary biology only goes back about 150 years. Give it time.

    Bradley

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    St. Satan,

    So, you are basically saying that god made the universe so that it could organise itself into gas clouds, stars, planets, ecosystems, animals, humans etc. Is that correct?

    Yes, I guess that is as basiclly as I would say it. Completely self organizing. I think God could have very well made have made many universes, there's no way to know. The wisdom i see in this one causes me to guess that he is beyond our ability to comprehend. I always thought the WT put God in a very small box. I mean how do you describe someone who exist outside of time and space. I think that one of the great joys of those whom he takes to himself is that they shall "see" him as he really is, which is imposible to describe to creatures who live inside time and space.

    Now what if the universe started out w the potential, as you say, but there was not a god as we commonly concieve it? What if there was just preexisting potential which separated itself into positive and negative, or started vibrating, creating highs and lows (waves) that look like the background noise of the universe. That is, the universe went from a state of being isotropic ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=isotropic) toward a chaos pattern, then grew from there. That illiminates god. Not that i'm atheist, or anything. Maybe gods evolve too.

    I can't prove you wrong, but I think God is a real personality, the "Ultimate Fact" but to prove it I think you would have to get out of this universe, in a diferent existance.

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