Where to draw the line: how Platonism haunts our discourse and the search for exorcism

by slimboyfat 168 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD


    How do you explain Pi without God?

    I can't wrap my feeble, literal-minded brain around the question because I think I would have to make a circular prior assumption about the nature of God before he/she/it becomes necessary.

    To me, Pi is a purely natural consequence of three spatial dimensions.

  • slimboyfat

    Why does reality exist in such a way that there is the relationship we call Pi?

    Reality seems to be strained through a sort of order that calls out for an explanation.


  • OrphanCrow
    sbf: Where did they come from, if not from God? The idea that such laws can just exist of themselves and require no explanation seems unsatisfying somehow.

    "Seems" unsatisfying

    Eh..."seems" doesn't cut it

    "Seems" is sooooo unsatisfying. "Seems" answers nothing. Nothing at all. "Seems" is only (and nothing else) a self centered positioning that begs to have a rational answer for its existence but has no solid positioning to base its assumption on

    An "inch" on the other hand, is straightforwardly constructed, and I can't find the enthusiasm to press the point, when it seems so obvious.

    Exactly. Of course it is obvious

    So why are you obscuring the forest to spite the tree? Why can you not accept the simple and the obvious?

    If the simple and the obvious won't hold, then neither will anything else that you try to build on top of it.

    An inch is an inch is an inch

    The beauty ( and truth) in that concept cannot be ignored in favor of "I'm more interested in Pi than an inch so therefore I will ignore the inch"

    You disappoint me , Slim. I thought you were going to come up with at least the issues that mathematics encountered when it tried to define infinity and not just say: Oh, I like pi better than an inch. Therefore god

  • _Morpheus

    Well this is the guy who thinks the wt collapsed last week but also 100 years from now so.....

  • slimboyfat

    Morph you’re one of the ones who think WT has found a sustainable alternative model based on real estate or some such? And you puts words in my mouth I never said. Need I say more?

    Crow, it seems to me the rules of the universe call for some sort of explanation. If you don’t think so, there’s little point arguing about it. It’s like arguing whether the sunset is beautiful. If you don’t feel it, then you can’t be convinced to feel it.

  • OrphanCrow
    It’s like arguing whether the sunset is beautiful.

    No, it isn't

    Beauty is subjective

    The "rules of the universe" do not exist within your subjective experience

    Feeling is subjective

    The "rules of the universe" are not

    "Feeling" has nothing to do with the rules of the universe

  • slimboyfat

    I am not saying the rules are subjective. (In fact that they are objective is the point) I am saying the feeling that they require some explanation may be subjective. Although actually I find it difficult to understand the view that they don’t require explanation.

  • captaingrl

    philosophy is just a stupid word game. I pity the people who play it.

  • OrphanCrow

    Fair enough

    But then your comment that it is the same thing doesn't apply

    It isn't the same thing

  • _Morpheus

    The problem is that the explanation has to “feel” good to some. The explanation can simply be “the laws of physics” but that isnt good enough for some... some need to believe that a singular god decided on the laws of physics. Thats where the feels come from.

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