Careful what you wish for! Regarding Jehovah in the New Testament

by pizzahut2023 81 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • pizzahut2023
    pizzahut2023

    Ok I'll bite.

    Let's say for a moment that Jehovah's Witnesses are right, and that the NT autographs (the originals) contained the Tetragrammaton.

    Let's say that the NT writers ALWAYS wrote "Jehovah" in Greek (Iexoba, as the Witnesses spell it currently) when they quoted the Hebrew Scriptures, whether they quoted from the Hebrew version or the Septuagint, and Jehovah's Name appeared on the quote. Let's say that the original Septuagint ALWAYS had Iexoba whenever they were referring to Jehovah.

    Then we have that the original Septuagint said in Psalms 101:26-28 the following:

    "At the beginning it was you, O Jehovah, who founded the earth, and the heavens are works of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure, and they will all become old like a garment. Like clothing you will change them, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will not fail."

    Then, appropriately, Hebrews 1:10-12 would read


    10 And: “At the beginning, O Jehovah, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”


    What about this other scripture?

    Psalms 32:9 in the "original" Septuagint would have read

    O taste, and see that Jehovah is kind, happy the man who hopes in Him.

    And therefore, the "original" NT would have HAD to have said

    (1 Peter 2:3, 4) 3 provided you have tasted that Jehovah is kind. 4 As you come to Him, a living stone rejected by men but chosen, precious to God,

    Oops!

    What have we done? Says the Watchtower.

    We have called the Son Jehovah!!

    The New World Translation suddenly here backpedals really really hard on their statement that the Septuagint contained "Jehovah" and that the NT writers had NO CHOICE but to respect the name and put it whenever they quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures where the name was found!

    Actually, this is what they do currently!

    They do NOT follow their own rule, their own statement, with regards to "Jehovah" in the Septuagint and/or the New Testament when it does not suit their needs/preconceived notions!

    Hebrews 1:10 and 1 Peter 2:3 in the New World Translation contain "Lord", NOT "Jehovah", because it would put them in an awkward position, theologically speaking.

    Let's go a bit further.

    Let's say that the Peshitta is a closer version to the original than the Greek New Testament.

    Let's say that every time the Peshitta says "MarYah", it means "The Lord Jehovah", as it does throughout the entire Old Testament.

    Then we would have MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE from the 6th century that Luke 2:11 reads

    (Luke 2:11) 11 For today there was born to you in David’s city a savior, who is Christ The Lord Jehovah.

    If Jehovah's Witnesses are right, then let's pack our bags and call it a day. Jesus is Jehovah Himself!

    If Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong (my opinion), then let's pack our bags and call it a day. They changed the Bible to suit their needs. Heck, every single Bible translator has in some way modified the Bible, so the Bible is not trustworthy, and therefore the Witnesses and every Bible-based religion is false. Let's all be atheists!

    Check. Mate.
  • FFGhost
    FFGhost

    JWs addressed this in their literature.

    12/15/86 Watchtower, page 29:

    102:25​—Who “laid the foundations of the earth”?
    The psalmist was talking about God, but the apostle Paul applied these words to Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:10, 11) As it turns out, these words also apply to Jesus, for he acted as Jehovah’s Agent in creating the universe. (Colossians 1:15, 16) So Jesus, too, could be said to have “laid the foundations of the earth.”

    Watchtower 6/1/94, page 30:

    Sometimes a text in the Hebrew Scriptures refers to Jehovah, but by virtue of His delegation of power and authority, it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Psalm 34:8, for example, invites us to “taste and see that Jehovah is good.” But Peter applies this to the Lord Jesus Christ when he says: “Provided you have tasted that the Lord is kind.” (1 Peter 2:3) Peter takes a principle and shows how it is true also of Jesus Christ. By taking in knowledge of both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ and acting upon it, Christians can enjoy rich blessings from both the Father and his Son. (John 17:3) Peter’s application does not make the Sovereign Lord Jehovah one person with the Lord Jesus Christ.​—See footnote to 1 Peter 2:3.

    Look, I know it's all hand-waving and special pleading and whatnot, but there you have their "official" rebuttals.

  • pizzahut2023
    pizzahut2023
    Sure, they do the rebuttal but they don't dare put "Jehovah" in those texts. They chickened out and put "Lord".

    I can't imagine how they would explain "Jehovah" being in Hebrews 1:10 in their Bibles.

    Just FYI, it's in many many J versions. I believe Hutter's (J7) has "Jehovah" in there.
  • Ding
    Ding

    Whenever the WT translators saw "Jehovah" in an OT quote, they inserted it into the New Testament where that quote appeared EXCEPT where it was talking about Jesus.

    Then they rendered it "Lord."

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    "Sometimes a text in the Hebrew Scriptures refers to Jehovah, but by virtue of His delegation of power and authority, it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ."

    Well, isn't that just the most convenient thing!

  • pizzahut2023
    pizzahut2023
    Whenever the WT translators saw "Jehovah" in an OT quote, they inserted it into the New Testament where that quote appeared EXCEPT where it was talking about Jesus.
    Then they rendered it "Lord."
    Actually no... Many times they do put "Jehovah" even though the quote refers to Jesus.

    Examples are:

    (Matthew 3:3) . . .This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in these words: “Listen! Someone is crying out in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah, YOU people! Make his roads straight.. . .
    (Mark 1:1-3) . . .The] beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ: 2 Just as it is written in Isaiah the prophet: “(Look! I am sending forth my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way;) 3 listen! someone is crying out in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah, YOU people, make his roads straight,’”
    (Luke 1:17) 17 Also, he will go before him with E·liʹjah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.”
    (Luke 1:76) . . .But as for you, young child, you will be called a prophet of the Most High, for you will go in advance before Jehovah to make his ways ready,


    Who actually came and walked the Earth? Jesus, not Jehovah. So why would John prepare Jehovah's road if Jesus would be the one walking it?

    Here it would totally make sense that the original NT used "Lord", because in my opinion putting "Jehovah" in there actually is more trinitarian than putting "Lord".

    Same with Romans 10:13

    (Romans 10:13) 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”
    If you look at the context, Romans 10 is talking about Jesus...

    Verses 11-14, if you read them carefully, link up. The person who you have to put faith in (verse 11, Jesus) is the same person who's name you have to call (verse 13, Jesus).

    But if the Watchtower insists that verse 13 is Jehovah, then they have unwittingly said that Jesus = Jehovah.

    So the text ends up being more trinitarian than if they had just kept "Lord".


    But then... they chicken out when it comes to putting "Jehovah" in Hebrews 1:10 and 1 Peter 2:3.
  • nischansr
    nischansr

    I don't trust any bible, they are all corrupted.

    The rcc had several hundred years when they outlawed anyone from owning or reading the bible, they had control of the scriptures and manuscripts, who knows how much they changed, adding and deleting verses?

  • Riley
    Riley

    It all goes back into the old testament. There is an invisible omnipotent yahweh and then there is some kind of divine manifestion yahweh who deals directly with humanity. It is all very weird. The two figures become so intertwined you are not sure who is what and what is who.

    The new testament is the realization that Jesus is this second yahweh or whatever and the term LORD becomes as ambiguous in the new testament as in the old testament.

    I have always thought the whole Jesus though Jehovah idea was kind of weak. It is also very similar to the Trinity which is kind of funny.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    How can the Watchtower Society reconcile Isaiah 44:24 with Hebrews 1:10?

  • pizzahut2023
    pizzahut2023
    How can the Watchtower Society reconcile Isaiah 44:24 with Hebrews 1:10?
    By ignoring it. I could not find any references to them even attempting to explain that.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit