Last night I asked about getting reinstated...

by Gadget 45 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mary

  She lives down the country, so we speak on the phone a few times a day, and see each other when we can - not as much as we'd like, and very little since I was DF'd. They said if we'd had any contact at all, even just a phone call, it would show not following counsel and not reinstate me.

  Um, Gadget have you ever considered LYING YOUR ASS OFF??!! These bozos don't deserve to know anything about about what you and your fiancee are doing. Both you and your fiancee should simply LIE and tell them that you both have decided to "follow their council" and not have any contact until you are re-instated. I know this is utterly nauseating, but if you want to avoid problems with her family, you're gonna have to play the game until you're reinstated. Then you can get married, tell them to stick the religion up their asses, move away and fade............okay you may want to avoid telling them to stick the religion, but you follow my general idea................

  Of course, you'll have to be very careful about seeing your fiancee while still DF'd. If you go to see her, you'll have to go places where you've got a pretty good idea that no one from the Hall will see you. Talk on the phone all you want; they can't listen in.

  Your elders have to be convinced that you are doing exactly as THEY tell you before they'll ever consider re-instating you. You'll have to make sure that you're at all the meetings, have your WT studied (I'm not kidding, they'll check for this) and show the proper "repentent" attitude.

  Good luck.
• 

  teejay

  Just remember...

  They have no more control over you than you allow them to have. With that in mind, you have a decision to make: To play or not to play their game.

  It's like my daddy said (one of the few pcs of advice he ever gave): If you want to play the game -- no matter what game it is -- learn the rules of the game and then play to win. If you want the elders in your life for the next six months to a year, play by wt rules. Do what they tell you to do. It's only a year. Sneak to see your lovey when you can/want, but otherwise be the perfect df'd Dub. Otherwise, tell 'em to kiss your ass and go on with your life. It's your decision. You are the only one who has to live with the consequences.
• 

  ozziepost

  G'day Gadget,

  You asked:

  Ozziepost, you said the elders were quite correct in this(According to JW policy anyway...), but wouldn't she then be counseled for breaking off the engagement, which is serious enough to remove somebody from a position in the congregation for?

  This is a two part question to which the answers are: No and No.

  To the first question, how wouyld the congregation view this broken engagement, the answer is that they would take it as a sign of faithful christian behaviour. To do otherwise would be disloyal to the organisation and, by extension, to Jehovah himself. In short, she'd look as if she were the faithful, persecuted but loyal "true" christian.

  To the second question, about how does the organisation view broken engagements, there was a time when a broken engagement could see a Bethelite expelled from Bethel and prevented from holding any privileges. That no longer applies. I guess it was the "advancing light" that caused the 'heavies' to change the procedure. Now, it's up to the collective conscience of the congegation i.e. if no-one is 'stumbled', then the one breaking an engagement may continue in whatever position and privileges they had.

  May I ask: will you be happy in the longer term knowing that you could only marry the one you love if you sacrificed your good conscience? Shouldn't a marriage be based on openness and honesty in all things?

  Cheers, ozzie
• 

  unique1

  Deny it. According to their laws, there has to be 2 witnesses to wrongdoing. They can't accuse you of anything and it hold water if you deny it and there are not two other people who have seen you with your fiancee. So they can't disfellowship her if two other people haven't spotted you two together and are willing to testify to that. It is their rule use it to your advantage.
• 

  Gadget

  But if I lie, they'll know because apparantly they know we've been together, been seen or something. If they know I'm lying on the committee they won't reinstate me. So'd be in the same boat as now.
• 

  Mary

  "....But if I lie, they'll know because apparantly they know we've been together, been seen or something...."

  Don't believe everything they say. These guys are slimeballs and they could just be telling you that you've been spotted together, just to see what your response is. Not only that, but do they have "two witnesses" who SAW you both together?? No?? Then gee, I guess they can't use ol' faithful! If you know for a fact that someone HAS seen you together, you could admit that part to your rotten elder body, tell them that you've prayed about the matter, and that you really, really want to do "what's right" (try not to vomit when you say this) and that you promise you won't see your finacee again until you're reinstated. You could REALLY lay it on thick and ask one of your elders if you feel yourself "weaken", can you call on him to help you through? In reality, they don't give a crap about you seeing your fiancee; they just want to know if you are willing to follow THEIR directions (not to be mistaken for Jehovah's). If they feel that you have "learned your lesson" and will meekly jump through their ropes, then they'll more than likely reinstate you, but you have to be convincing. You also need to get your story straight with your girlfriend. She has to know that she cannot let these guys know that you've still been seeing each other. Her elder body or your elder body could say something to you like "Your fiancee told us that you've still been seeing each other" just to see what your reaction is. Cops do this all the time when they're trying to get a confession out of someone. They tell the guy "your friend TOLD us that you robbed a convenient store." The friend hasn't done anything of the kind, but his friend thinks that he has so he confesses. If you do continue to see your girlfriend, do not go to where she lives, because she could have elders watching her place. Arrange to meet her somewhere, in another town or city. It's pathetic that you have to do this, but if you want to get re-instated, you have to play their game.
• 

  teejay

  Now, it's up to the collective conscience of the congegation i.e. if no-one is 'stumbled', then the one breaking an engagement may continue in whatever position and privileges they had. – ozziepost

  I know this for a fact to be true. It's up to the local elders.

  "John" (a brother I knew very well) left home to become a Bethelite. He was there for 3 or 4 years. While there, he met a sister (in NY) and they got engaged. He left Bethel with the intention of marrying her. He got back home to arrange things and she moved her stuff down and was living with his folks. A month or so before the wedding, John realized he had feelings for a local sister -- a girl he'd grown up with -- and broke the engagement. The sister from NY was devastated and moved back home to NY. No action was taken against John. He kept his privileges as a MS and is now an elder. Within a year he'd gotten married.

  I left out the part that John's dad was an elder of some standing in the city, but I'm sure that didn't have anything to do with anything.
• 

  rocketman

  I wouldn't lie about it, personally. To me, that means they're controlling you too, in that you are forced to lie* to avoid the repercussions that they determine upon you.

  You're in a tough spot here; it's kind of a catch-22. Either someone's going to get df'd, or not reinstated, or you break it off totally. Play by their rules, and that's what happens.

  *On the other hand, you are not under obligation to volunteer information. Theocratic Warfare strategy.
• 

  Nosferatu

  Okay, I have just one question for you - has your fiance agreed to fade with you? If she has, what the hell do you care about? Get married, get dfed, then reinstated, then fade.

  Gadget, there is one thing that you must remember - don't put your life into anyone elses hands, not the organization, not your fiance, not anybody. You will never be able to achieve true happiness if you're always living like a slave. Live for yourself. Noone can bring you true happiness except you. I'd say stay DFed, and if your fiance truly loves you, she'll follow. If she doesn't follow, you my friend have set yourself free from a lot of grief and problems in the future. Follow the path that you choose, not the one someone else chooses for you.
• 

  144thousand_and_one

  Tell the elders you need to speak to them in a health club, then take them in the steam room, lock the door, and let the effects of a diet of beans, broccoli, beef heart and Heineken flavor their nasal passages with a scent that symbolizes the value of the faith they follow.