The Name of God

by ClassAvenger 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ClassAvenger
    ClassAvenger

    Hi. I have a friend who is a Jehovah Witness. Once we started talking about prayer, and I told him that we referred to God as 'Lord', or 'God', or 'Father', for reverence or respect, although we did not have prohibited to say Jehovah. He said that I was wrong, that it was necessary to state that the prayer was for Jehovah and not any other God. He had several arguments, I will list them here:

    • "God" is like a title, there are many false gods created by men, and that Satan was the god of evil.
    • In Matthew 6:9, in the prayer done by Jesus, he states "Hallowed be thy name." According to him, we sanctify or bless his name by saying it.
    • State that the prayer was for Jehovah and not any other god.
    • Demons flee when they hear God's name, Jehovah.

    I want to have some strong arguments to backfire at him. I know that there is no winning a discussion with a Jehovah Witness, but I need to give him an answer to support my beliefs. Some people in here are very knowledgeable on the bible, so I am seeking their help. Thanks for the information. - Class Avenger

  • gitasatsangha
    gitasatsangha

    .

    In Matthew 6:9, in the prayer done by Jesus, he states "Hallowed be thy name." According to him, we sanctify or bless his name by saying it.

    Here is a very simple question. Is the Lord's Prayer a good prayer? If Jesus felt it was important to say the name, why didn't he in this very prayer?

    All to often the JW's are quick to disregard anything said by Jesus in deference to the their waky interpretation of the Pauline letters and Revelations. They even feel that reciting the Lord's Prayer is invalid because it is "repetitive". However I doubt you will find any witness who will come out and say Jesus made a mistake in not saying "Jehovah" or Yahweh when making his prayer on the Mount.

    If it's this simple to a non-christian like me, it should be EASY for them.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
  • In Matthew 6:9, in the prayer done by Jesus, he states "Hallowed be thy name." According to him, we sanctify or bless his name by saying it.
  • Then why didn't Jesus say "Jehovah" in this model prayer?

    Edit: lol gitasatsangha... you're too quick for me.

  • Dizzy Cat
    Dizzy Cat

    You are probably on to a loser arguing the toss over the name of God. It is one area that JWs bang on about - "we use the name of God, the other churches do not etc etc" - aside from the fact that Rastas/Masons and others use the name Jehovah. But anyway ....

    Name can also refer to reputation, so within the context of the prayer, Jesus may have been indicating that the reputation of God was holy (spiritually clean etc).

    Sometimes it is necessary to pick things apart, use a dictionary and retort with logic. JWs are keen to take this approach, we should as well.

  • Tyler
    Tyler

    It is true that the name of God 'Jehovah' or 'Yahweh' has been unfairly removed from english translations of the bible for no plausable reason, however, the truth is that God nowhere actually "comanded" his name TO be used. He did, however, FORBID its use in vien.

    Your friends interperatation of Matt 6:9 is only how he reads it. It does not actually SAY we should use it. Making the name a secrat is also making it sacred. He is reading into that scripture something that is not actually there.

    By God's word there are no other gods! Only false gods. The bible has examples of prayers where God's name is not used.

    I forget the scripture he is alluding to about the demons, however to my memory the 'demons know there is one God and shudder!' Simply knowing the esistance of the one God makes them shudder. Where does it say they flee at the sound of God's name? Again he is reading into the scriptures what is not actually there.

    In summery, what he believes is a result of how he has been 'trained' to read the scriptures. He has not come to this belief from the scriptures himself. When you actually examine what you have learned, you realise that not everything the 'Society' teaches is founded on scripture.

  • Francois
    Francois

    "The God that you can name is not the eternal God." - Lao Tzu, The Tao Te Ching.

    This means that the instant you name something, even God or a god, you label it and a label is a limiting thing. For instance, when someone says their god's name is Baal, one thinks about an ancient middle eastern god who supported his follower's claims to own land as individuals, who supported human sacrifice, and who was a "false" god. No one thinks about Baal being a god of love, or a god of mercy because those characteristics are not a part of the "Baal" label. Thus Baal is limited by his name, or label.

    The same is true of Jehovah, and it's more complex because Jehovah appears to suffer multiple personality disorder. In one place he's an angry judge-accountant who is chiefly interested in making damaging enteries in his "book of life" of the errors of his earth children so that he can properly punish them later. But he is also a god of love and mercy. He is on the one hand willing and able to make Canaan run with blood, and he did; and on the other hand is not willing that "even one" be lost. Here is a god that is "no respecter of persons" in one place, but who has respect for a certain racial or ethnic group of people in favor of all others in another; his so-called "chosen people." Here also is a god who says in one place that it's a mortal sin to be angry, jealous, resentful, self-centered, and several other characteristics, but who himself practices these very human failures on an unimaginable scale. And all these characteristics come to mind when you use the "Jehovah" label.

    The point is that the "Jehovah" label defines who and what Jehovah is, and he is not more, nor any less than what is included in this definition, this label. Thus the god represented by the label "Jehovah" is a limited god - - and a LIMITED god is not GOD at all; God, the real one, is eternal and infinite and thus unlimited by anything, especially is he not limited by a mere name and a made up, tricked out name assigned by a human organized religion at that. Lao Tzu apparently knew what he was speaking about.

    Questions?

    Tyler, you also read into scripture that which is not there. The real god has never revealed himself by name - only by attribute, regardless of what any scripture says. There is no record that Jesus ever used a name for god. That's quiet good enough and is certainly superior to the claims of a man-made organization who has proved its untrustworthiness over and over and over for over 120 years.

    francois

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    The Tetragrammaton is not (or was not) pronounced JEHOVAH, no one is really sure how it was pronounced though some scholars like YAHWEH. If it were so darned important to use God's name wouldn't it be important to pronounce it correctly? My dad would be a bit peeved if I called him by his name, and even more so if I called him Blichard instead of Richard. Jesus was content to call God ABBA (daddy). The closest Jesus ever came to actually SAYING the divine name was when he called himself I AM.

    God Knows who he is and when he's being prayed to. It's an insult to God to infer that he won't know it's him being prayed to unless you use his name.

    In actually the name is also only a title.

    To Glorify or make known the name of God means to make known God's attributes.

    Is there more than one God that God must have his name used to know we're talking to him, or that we have to use it to distinguish him from the other gods?

    There's nothing wrong with using JEHOVAH or YAHWEH, but to INSIST upon it goes beyond what I can bear and is a lie.

  • shera
    shera

    Here is a link on God's name http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/gods_name.html

    Some people in recent years have used the name "JEHOVAH" in place of "YHWH". According to the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses, this name was first recorded in 1270 A.D. more than a thousand years after the death of Christ, by a Catholic Monk, Raymundus Martini.

  • cornish
    cornish

    Unfortunately Jehovah's Witnesses use the word Jehovah a bit like a lucky charm,even to the point of believing using a word will chase away demons.A name is always just a worded symbol of the greater thing,ie the personality and person of an individual.JWs have as in many things made the symbol the name more important than the actual person it represents.

    And just as the previous poster has displayed,the name Jehovah was invented by a Catholic clergyman a millenium after Christ.he combined the vowel points from Lord (Adonay) with the constants JHVH,to create the hybrid title cross Tetragrame result.

    I can remember how the word was used so mechanically at the meetings to the point that it would have to be included repetatively in the prayers and talks at the meetings,to the point that if a witness failed to use the word Jehovah even in a short talk they would start to be viewed with suspicion,,,but that apostles in the New testament did precisely that even in the NWT bible their are long sermons where the divine name is not used once,which would be unheard of among JWs.

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman

    During my early years in studying the OT, in the beginning of the OT in Genesis, the name of God was Elohim...looking into some commentaries I found this one... Commentaries: Forerunner Commentary

    Genesis 1:1

    Even before leaving the first verse, a serious student of the Bible is confronted with a difficulty—unless he is willing to believe what the Bible consistently shows from the beginning to the end. The fourth word in the Bible is "God," Elohim in Hebrew. But that takes some explaining. Elohim is God—plural. "In the beginning Gods created the heaven and the earth." For an English-speaking person, this is confirmed in Genesis 1:26, where the translators finally used plural pronouns to conform to the plural noun antecedent, Elohim.

    The translators recognized in verse 26 that Elohim—"God"—was speaking to somebody, and He was speaking to someone who was just like Him, which is why the word Us is used. They were forced into using a plural pronoun. "Let Us make man in Our image." In fact, Elohim is used 66 times in a row at the beginning of the Bible before any other Hebrew word is translated into the English "God." That occurs in Genesis 6:5 when finally another word is used for God.

    Someone reading this beginning in Hebrew would have to be impressed that the author of this book was trying to get something across to the reader that "Gods" (plural) did everything—not an individual but a least two. Elohim is used in the Old Testament 2,570 times, and every usage is plural—"Gods."

    Whoever or whatever this "Godhead" (Romans 1:20) is consists of more than one being, or more than one person, or more than one personality.

    John W. Ritenbaugh
    The Nature of God: Elohim

    I leave you guys to debate on this...

    Yizuman

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