Bad News For Vivamus!!!

by ISP 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • Stephanus

    Actually, the way to handle this is to allow cafes to make the choice - people who want no smoke around can go to the smoke free ones while the smokers can go to the smokey ones. Everybody's happy then. But then, The socialist Netherlands Govt. wouldn't be happy because it wouldn't be interfering in the market!

  • Prisca

    Yes, I think that would be the way to go, so that everyone is happy.

  • Vivamus

    Prisca, I'm sorry for your mum. However, the situation you describe has nothing to do with restaurants and bars, but everything with smokers who smoke in their own home.

    If I am out with my friends, I tend to be a social smoker, and they tend to be a social friend, so we are all happy. I smoke after dinner, not during, I refrain from smoking in my car while I am driving, and we are all happy.

    In all honesty, when I go out for coffe, I am going out fo coffee and a smoke, should I not be able to smoke, well, hell, I can have that coffee on the go or drink it at home, but I won't be sitting in that coffeebar then.


    European District Overbeer

  • Prisca

    Yes, the situation with my mum is not related to pubs and restaurants, but it was told to illustrate that smoking isn't as harmless as groups (particularly the tabacco industry) try to make it out to be.

    People who smoke think it is their right to light up in a public place. But what about the right of non-smokers to not have to breathe in carciogenic(sp?) air? Especially when it is in a place around food?

    I don't care if people want to commit suicide slowly or not. Just don't do it around me or my loved ones.

  • Abaddon

    Well, the USA is nuts regarding no smoking regulations, the UK is a lot better, and Holland is the most smoking (tobacco) friendly country I've been to.

    I think trying to control this through anything other than market forces is daft; if smoke free restaurants and bars are so desired, then they'll be the clientel to support them being set-up, without government interference.

    Health considerations are an individual's responsibility; if you go to watch a rally in an area of the circuit without safety barriers, and get hit by a car, it's your fault. Going to a bar is no different; if there is no 'safety barrier', it's your decison to be there. Go to a bar with a safety barrier (no smoking policy or no smoking zone), or don;t go to a bar. If you want to work in a bar, you should bear in mind it's a smokey environment, just like working on erecting steel frames for skyscrapers is a high envirnoment. You don;t like smoke/heights, don't do the work.

    Even if this legislation makes it through, I doubt if it will be enforced to any extent; it is such an engrained smoking culture there's too much inertia to overcome with a law that would require high levels of enforecement, drawing police away from real crimes.

    Socialist is one hell of a misnomer for the Dutch givernment, as it brings to mind Russia. All it is is social democracy; it's actually a very conservative country with a pragmatic trouble solving attitude, rather than a very liberal atmosphere.

  • Vivamus

    Yeah, what Abaddon said! Exactly.


    Dutch District Overbeer

  • Valis

    If you go into a bar that sells spiritual food then you expect there to be smoke...otherwise what are you doing there? Well, maybe having a brownie, but then you probably wouldn't care if you did. Regular restuarants though where they serve food, I don't mind going outside...its just polite. I'm sure Viv can flourish under such persectution though...and rejoice in the face of satanic forces...


    District Overbeer

  • Agent Double- O- Soul
    Agent Double- O- Soul

    The Dutch government like Russia & conservative? Wowee that's 'new light' for me. I thought it was as per Ali G: "Imagine a country where there's no laws ,serious maff & the government buys you skank. This place exist in a country called Europe &, luckily, they want us to join!" Just shows you think you know. If it's hash or cigars I don't bother but if there's too many ciggies that might be too much for me with the passive smokin. Shame we can't get passive drinking, eh? Save a few notes on a night out that would.

    Take care...


  • TruckerGB
    Shame we can't get passive drinking, eh? Save a few notes on a night out that would.




  • Robdar

    Since I have again quit smoking ciggies, I am not personally affected by laws that forbid smoking in public places. I do resent that those who engage in a LEGAL vice are being forced to go outside to light up.

    Restaurants should have smoking and non smoking sections. And hey, why would anybody be in a Dutch coffee house if they weren't there to smoke cannabis?

    Shame we can't get passive drinking, eh? Save a few notes on a night out that would.

    Agent Double O Soul,

    Well said. And quite a funny remark too. Welcome to the board.

    Kisses to Trucker.



Share this