A question for christians (page 2)

blondie

Interestingly, I don't think Muhammed wrote any of the Koran nor did Buddha write anything down. Hmmmm?

StinkyPantz

Well, I suppose it would be 'nice' to have something that Jesus wrote, but that wouldn't change anything at all.

This would change SO much for me personally. For example, I'd like to know about his childhood and when he realized that he was borne in heaven. There are many, many questions that the Bible writers left unanswered, that Jesus could've answered.

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I suppose since azaria's post on this thread is a result of our discussion I should comment on it.

what really annoys me is when some here belittle someone else’s beliefs that
are different than their own. (cynical & sarcastic come to mind) I would also object to a Christian
lambasting the atheist’s belief. We all have a right to believe what we want; free choice. Some of
the people here that profess to be atheists seem so angry, demanding Christians answer their
questions, yet the atheist doesn’t have any answers. If you are a confirmed atheist then be
comfortable with it and let it go. Why argue about something that you don’t even believe in; or is
it that you want to convince others not to believe? From what I see the JW mentality is still alive
and well on this site. Some here who used to be witnesses probably claimed that they were the
only ones who were right and now as atheists they claim that they are the only ones that are right.

Here's how I feel. As an athiest you can ask me whatever you want and I will never say it's wrong of you to get me to question my beliefs. I wish that as a JW someone had done that for me. Btw, I am NOT a full blown athiest and that is why I ask questions. I am AGNOSTIC! There is a difference. I am agnostic mostly because I have yet to find a Christian who is willing to answer my questions fully. Oh and for the record, I don't think I'm 100% right about anything, and that's why I ask questions. Maybe you get annoyed by athiests because you don't understand them.

drwtsn32

I don't think I'm 100% right about anything

I completely agree with you here, StinkyPantz. As a JW I was so 100% sure of everything. I was so damn arrogant! Now that I have left the org I am actually free to think for myself and consider all possibilities. As a result, I find that I am not sure of so many things.

I do consider myself more of an atheist than an agnostic. God has never once shown that he affected my life in any way. I simply do not see any evidence to support his existence.

pseudoxristos

According to the gospel of Luke, Jesus could read.

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up; and he entered, according to his custom, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Esaias was given to him; and having unrolled the book he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor; he has sent me to preach to captives deliverance, and to the blind sight, to send forth the crushed delivered, 19 to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Luke 4:16-19 (Darby's)

Interestingly though, the gospel of John suggests that the Jesus had not been taught to read. Although John does show that Jesus taught in the temple, he does not record the event where Jesus reads from the book of Isaiah.

14 But when it was now the middle of the feast, Jesus went up into the temple and taught. 15 The Jews therefore wondered, saying, How knows this man letters, having never learned? 16 Jesus therefore answered them and said, My doctrine is not mine, but that of him that has sent me. John 7:14-16 (Darby's)

The gospels indicate several times that Jesus taught in the synagogues. His method of teaching in the synagogues would most likely have been the same method he used while instructing his Disciples. From the many examples of Jesus’ teaching of the Disciples, there is no indication that he is reading from the Scriptures. Like many of his contemporaries he instructed using an oral tradition, full of stories, parables and inexact quotes to make his points.

The literacy rate for Jews in the first century was most likely less than 10%. With Jesus’ lower social standing it is reasonable to conclude that he was illiterate.

A simple explanation for Luke 4:16; is that Luke stretched the truth in an attempt to put Jesus on par with the current Jewish teachers.

pseudo

Illiteracy in the Land of Israel in the first centuries c.e.

…..

For example we can observe data of illiteracy gathered from different societies in the first half of the 20th century: Turkey 1927: 91.8%; Egypt 1927: 85.7%; South Africa 1921: 90.3%; India 1921: 90.5%; Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia before 1950: above 90%. Our question is, what can be learned from these rates of modern illiteracy that concern ancient illiteracy, from societies before their industrial revolutions? In other words, can't a tentative conclusion be drawn that in ancient 'traditional' societies the rate of literacy was less than 10%?

Certainly, there is no definite answer to such a question, and maybe there is no comparison between 20th century Egypt and the Land of Israel in the first century. An examination of the data in Egypt would reveal that if ancient Jewish literacy was somewhat around 5%, then the modern figures of 10% in Egypt are an exaggeration of 100%. Nonetheless, the modern figures might give us an idea concerning the literacy rate we are dealing with in pre-industrial ancient society: the Jews in the Land of Israel in Late Antiquity. …… http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~barilm/illitera.html

Dansk

Azaria

Some of the people here that profess to be atheists seem so angry, demanding Christians answer their questions, yet the atheist doesn’t have any answers.

Perhaps they are still in pain through being duped by Watchtower and so question anything to do with "Christianity". I understand this. I now question everything, also - though, hopefully, not with anger.

Jgnat

It seems to me, then, that Christianity is a very personal experience,

This is Taoism. Was Jesus a Taoist? Interesting!

Dansk

greven

Azaria, some points I wish to comment on, being an atheist myself...

The atheist’s belief.

I think this is an oxymoron. The atheist has a lack of belief or beliefsystem. (but it does depend on the definition you use)

We all have a right to believe what we want; free choice. Some of the people here that profess to be atheists seem so angry, demanding Christians answer their questions, yet the atheist doesn’t have any answers.

Well, yes I must admit some atheists appear to be know-it-all's. However I have seen the same thing with theists, especially fundies. Indeed the best discussions are held with people that are willing to admit they could be wrong in their conviction. Dogmatism kills this off, whether one is theist, atheist or agnostic. A dogmatic agnostic now that would be funny! As far as I could see, Irongland's question was sincere and not meant to ridicule anyones conviction.

If you are a confirmed atheist then be comfortable with it and let it go. Why argue about something that you don’t even believe in; or is it that you want to convince others not to believe?

I don't believe in the Loch Ness monster, but quite willing to discuss it. Why not? I gather you don't believe in evolution. Does this mean you are not willing to discuss it? Since you don't believe in it why argue about it? See how silly such reasoning is?

Why argue about something that you don't believe in? Well, if one is not sure it helps to discuss it, to think and reason about it. When it comes to the bible, sure we can discuss it...learn about it and the views people have on it makes us understand eachother and our motivations better. And yes, it may even be possible to convince others of one's view.

or is it that you want to convince others not to believe?

This puzzles me a bit...even if it were true, don't Christians want to convince other to believe? Is this not their primary calling? Why then, would it be wrong for atheists to try to convince others not to believe?

Greven

funkyderek

A dogmatic agnostic now that would be funny!

I'm a dogmatic agnostic! I assert quite dogmatically that it is impossible to know for certain whether there is a god, or the nature of any gods that may exist.

hooberus

If there are any Christians here,I have a question. Why didn't jesus write anything down? Was he Illiterate?Did he write it down and the papers get lost? Why do we not have his acount of the events of his life in his own words?Not even a speech? Jesus was the son of god and he was charged with bringing gods message to the world why didn't he write it down?Why did it takes years before the story was written. It seems like to important a job to leave up to mere mortals.Why not have the son of god write his own biography so there could be no doubt as to the authorship.

Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would remind his disciples what he said and, that he, the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth.

This is the same as the Old Testament when Gods words were written down by men carried along by the Holy Spirit such as Moses.

Francois

Easy. If he had written anything down, humans - being what they are - would have worshipped it like it was a God, pure and simple. That's why he wrote only in the sand.

For the same reason, he left no offspring behind on the planet; otherwise we would have worshipped His line right down to this very day. It was not to be worshipped that he came here to achieve. He came here to more brightly illuminate The Way of spiritual progress - something that we each have to accomplish for ourselves.

Simple.

francois

Realist

stinky,

Because it was all made up?

precise, succinct and accurate! great style!

A question for christians

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