Jesus was pre-conceived in vitro within a heavenly laboratory.
Mary was not a surrogate mother. She was genetically related to Jesus and probably looked like him.
Have JW `s ever faced the topic of Jesus having inherited Adamic sin ?
by smiddy3 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Fisherman
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waton
related to Jesus and probably looked like him
so, appearance not according tp the art work, but according to prophecy: he was to be not an attractive man.
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waton
the argument is based on conclusions not evidence.
Fisherman, you nailed it. Conclusions without evidence. wow. or
as stated in another classic collection:
"Much ado about nothing"
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ThomasMore
What is perfection? It is not immortality. Does it in itself result in everlasting life? If Jesus had not been executed, would he have grown old? JWs say "no". Does being perfect guarantee that a person does not grow old? The scriptures do not say. Only in Adam and Eve's case did God say that allowing them to re-enter the Garden and eat from the tree of life would result in life indefinite. He was referring to what would have represented foregiveness - something he was not prepared to extend.
Apparently even perfect people need to be revitalized by God to continue living. Perhaps God would have continued to revitalize Jesus, but he was sent to die and that is what he did.
What about angels? The ones that sinned are no longer perfect. Will they eventually lose their vitality and die? Maybe that is why Satan had such great anger when he was cast to earth (according to Revelation). I can think of many reasons he might have been angry. No longer being allowed to be in the presence of God was probably at the top of the list. But he hated God- right? Apparently, but did being in God's presence "revitalize" him in some way?
The point is, Jesus was perfect but it did not make him immortal. Nor could he could fly, be invisible, have super-human strength, etc. It is unlikely that he would have been the best athlete, chess player or singer... But he was perfect, and it meant something significant.
So the only examples of perfect humans we know of are Jesus, Adam and Eve - and Adam and Eve are dead. Perhaps deciding on what perfection actually means is significant - more significant that what WTC thinks. After all, WTC doesn't even think Adam and Eve ever ate from the tree of life. They forgot that Eve told the serpent that "from all the trees we may eat" - except for the one designated as the Tree of Knowledge. Apparently, eating from the Tree of Life was just a continual promise that they could keep living and be revitalized in some way. They ate until they were no longer allowed to. Then they started down the road leading to death.
Perfection appears to only be the absence of inherited or deliberate sin which is lawlessness. Jesus, Adam and Eve were the only humans who had it, and only Jesus kept it until his death. What's all the disagreement about?
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waton
What's all the disagreement about?
How genetic splicing turned one of the imperfect ova (existing since soon after Mary's conception) into a perfect fetus.
Excellent post, Thomas. More from the doubter please, you covered many angles, facets of the story.
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fulltimestudent
Is our contemporary use (the meaning we attach to it) of the word 'perfection) the precise meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words?
One Bible dictionary claims: "Two word-groups in the Hebrew Old Testament are translated "perfect" or "perfection": tamam [m'T] and calal [l;l'K]. The former connotes wholeness, soundness, integrity, and often takes on ethical significance; the latter connotes completeness, perfection, and can carry the aesthetic sense of comeliness or beauty. Nearly all New Testament occurrences translate Greek words sharing the tel- stem, from which some half-dozen words are formed that bear the sense of completion or wholeness."
(https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/perfect-perfection/)
So in contemporary English, if I say my new house is complete, what do I mean? I think christians of all sorts, attach meanings that there is no real original basis to the claim.
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Fisherman
not an attractive man.
Poetic Bible language aka literary device.
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Fisherman
Conclusions without evidence. wow. or
I didn’t say there is no evidence. I said that the argument was based on conclusions. The Bible does not directly say or imply or infer or lead to to conclusion. WT is not saying now that is not the case.
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waton
the way it reads : the arguments are not based on evidence but on conclusions. --- drawn from?
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Fisherman
conclusions. --- drawn from?
interpretations.
Such as the eyes of Eve were opened only after Adam sinned. Death penalty was not pronounced on Eve. Texts like “through one man sin entered into the world.”
Is it then sequitor that Eve could conceive like Mary perfect children inspite of her sin had Adam remained obedient? Maybe or seemingly. But that is a conclusion derived from the text.