by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?
No.
You seem rather confused as to whether or not God himself gave you your vision:
The vision I had was extremely convincing to me and not anyone else.
Source: God.
Delivery: an angel.
But if Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person why is human nature still broken such that humans continue to sin and commit evil acts?
Before original sin was the original justice. The human nature is not totally broken (Protestants say it's totally broken, total depravity).
At this moment is only give the sanctifying grace (to overcome mortal sins).
The original justice will only be restored at the Last Judgment with the resurrection of the body.
The humankind must have the soul and body permanently united. That's the not broken human nature.
John_Mann,
So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?
"No."
So is it Jesus' death that erases the guilt of original sin or is it baptism that erases the guilt of original sin?
I think it's a common mistake to imagine that we can actually choose our beliefs. It's better to ask questions, study, debate and reflect. Our beliefs happen while we engage in that process.
Pardon me, Cofty. This response was lost in the avalanche of information. Hence, the delay. Thank you, for taking the time to respond. Besides, others have had so much to contribute. Sorry that, I have no specific arguments or counter-arguments for the OP or later. For that, it may simply be disregarded by you or any other.
Your response is fascinating. Hence the question(open to all, of course): Are beliefs merely a function of the intellect? For if they are, then those are understandably subject to changes. Else, they are impervious to external, transitory factors.
John_Mann,
"The vision I had was extremely convincing to me and not anyone else.
Source: God.
Delivery: an angel."
1. So why did you initially deny that your vision was from God?
2. How do you know that your vision is not convincing to anyone else?
Have you told anyone else about the specific details/ specific content of your vision?
You refused to provide the specific details/ specific content of your vision when someone from this forum asked you to share that information.
3. What about your vision makes you certain that it was from God via an angel?
How were you able to tell that your vision was from God via an angel?
4. "There's about 4 views in CC about the crucifixion of Christ."
If God can give you a vision, then why doesn't God speak to the Catholic Church and tell them which is the correct view? Why has God left the CC floundering and guessing on this matter?
5. If God can give you a vision, then why hasn't God appeared to the 40,000 Christian denominations and given all of them the same interpretation of the Bible so that they are all in agreement?
6. For that matter, if God can give you a vision, then why hasn't God appeared to the all of the various religions in the world, explain where they are misinterpreting his wishes, tells them what he really wants, what he really desires from humanity in order to end religious schism, division, confusion and discord?
7. According to the WT ​February 2017 par.12, p.26 - "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible."
So the GB has admitted that God/the Holy Spirit does not speak to /communicate with them. Yet you claim that God, via an angel, gave you a vision?
So God contacts/communicates with you but not the GB?
Why would God contact/communicate with you but not the GB?
Isn't the GB equally seeking God's will and praying to him, so why isn't God answering them, speaking with them, communicating with them, contacting them as he does you?
John_Mann,
"At this moment is only give the sanctifying grace (to overcome mortal sins)."
"Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person."
"There's no clear plan for the planet earth. But it will be transformed at the Last Judgment. At that time everything will change."
Are you saying that God rather remove the GUILT for something which we did not do instead of its CONSEQUENCES, leaving us to continue experiencing evil and suffering?
'I will remove the GUILT but not the CONSEQUENCES' - is that what God is doing?
Why would a loving God not want to bring the object of his love (humans) relief from suffering and evil as a result of Adamic sin, AT THE SAME TIME that he removes the GUILT for this original sin?
Why remove just the GUILT and not the CONSEQUENCES SIMULTANEOUSLY?
"It was revealed to the angels the humankind will fall and God himself would become a human. This implied angels to worship the human nature in God."
So God went through the process of becoming a human when Adam & Eve sinned just so that he could subsequently die to remove the GUILT of Adamic sin but not the CONSEQUENCES of Adamic sin?
Your response is fascinating. Hence the question(open to all, of course): Are beliefs merely a function of the intellect? For if they are, then those are understandably subject to changes. Else, they are impervious to external, transitory factors.
I would say it's wise to have beliefs that are subject to change. Beliefs should change as new information and evidence emerge, else one is simply deluding themselves.
So God went through the process of becoming a human when Adam & Eve sinned just so that he could subsequently die to remove the GUILT of Adamic sin but not the CONSEQUENCES of Adamic sin?
Yeah, that's doesn't sound right to me either. It would be like if someone was pardoned for their crimes by a ruler but still had to stay in prison. What's the point of the pardon?
else one is simply deluding themselves.
We all delude ourselves in a way over the entire stretch of our lives. Specifically, in instances and events, we retain a measure of predictability and certainty. So it seems!
John_Mann - This vision stuff you talk of.
Why you? Why not everyone else?
What greater good does it serve?
How will it make others believe?
