This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe (page 30)

deegee

John_Mann,

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil and suffereing which we see in the world today?

John_Mann

The angels still had free will AFTER the original sin was committed.

Sorry if I was not clear but free-will about changing the choice between good and bad. The most important feature of free-will. They can't change their mind between good and bad but of course they have will about things in their main choice.

God didn't have the foresight with regard to their eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil but he did in the case of the tree of life.
Having the foresight to realize what would happen if Adam and Eve remained in the Garden of Eden, God takes the precaution of putting a barrier between them and the Tree of Life.
God being omniscient proactively took steps to ban Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden after they sinned as he foreknew that they would eat from the tree of life and live.
Yet he didn't foreknow that they would eat from the tree with the forbidden fruit and thereby take steps to put the tree with the forbidden fruit out of their reach - only the tree of life was deserving of such a proactive action.
Or is it that God is not omniscient - not even of high intelligence - because he did not realize that without a moral sense, Eve and Adam would probably eat the fruit sooner or later? Any parent who puts a plate of cookies in front of their toddler and tells them not to eat any is aware of what the infant will do.

Please read about molinism.

So God took away their free will because they rebelled?

No. Because they were exposed to a total revelation. Angels lost the free-will too.

do have free will in this instance - I decided that the ton of gold was worth far far more than the pin and therefore chose the ton of gold instead of the pin.

Nobody mentally sane would choose the pin. There's no freedom in this choice.

John_Mann

his therefore means that if Jesus was given access to the "tree of life" he would live forever as a human. It would therefore not be possible for him to die a natural death as long as he had access to the "tree of life".

Idk. I was talking about the literal JW view on Genesis. I see Genesis as an allegory.

John_Mann

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil which we see in the world today?

Yes.

deegee

John_Mann,

"There's no official position from Catholic Church about why Jesus was killed. It's a complete mystery."

"Obviously there was another possibility or possibilities because Jesus prayed for the possibility to get another option "take this cup from me".

And the crucifixion made no sense to his disciples."

Your foregoing comments claim that Jesus' death has nothing to do with cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve.

So, if not Jesus' death, then, does God have a different plan for cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering which has been as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve?

Saethydd

I was just relaxed. No drugs, alcohol, nothing. Normal conditions, inside my house, no depression, etc..

I'm a little late on this, but are you certain you didn't simply enter the hypnagogic state?

It's not uncommon for people to believe that they see ghosts and spirits and such in this state and be convinced that they were real. However, because you're relaxed your brainwaves have moved from Beta to Alpha which can trigger this state as one approaches light sleep.

John_Mann

Your foregoing comments claim that Jesus' death has nothing to do with cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve.

Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person.

So, if not Jesus' death, then, does God have a different plan for cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering which has been as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve?

The consequence of original sin is a broken human nature. Humans in this condition commit personal sins (different from inherited sin).

There's no clear plan for the planet earth. But it will be transformed at the Last Judgment. At that time everything will change.

John_Mann

I'm a little late on this, but are you certain you didn't simply enter the hypnagogic state?
It's not uncommon for people to believe that they see ghosts and spirits and such in this state and be convinced that they were real. However, because you're relaxed your brainwaves have moved from Beta to Alpha which can trigger this state as one approaches light sleep.

It was a unique experience to me. It never repeated. This is very subjective. And I'm not asking anyone to believe in Christianity because I had some strange experience. Actually my goal here is just share some intellectual information about Christianity. Maybe (someday) it will be useful to someone passing through similar conditions that I passed through.

deegee

John_Mann,

"Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person."

So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?

"The consequence of original sin is a broken human nature. Humans in this condition commit personal sins"

But if Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person why is human nature still broken such that humans continue to sin and commit evil acts?

deegee

John_Mann,

"I'm not asking anyone to believe in Christianity because I had some strange experience."

You seem rather confused as to whether or not God himself gave you your vision:

Did you receive this vision from God himself?
"Idk. Probably not."

You subsequently contradicted yourself:

What was the source of your vision then?
"God."

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

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