People cannot be controlled without their permission

by joelbear 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  JT

  One must recognise being controlled, discover the reason why you allow someone to have control over you, and act accordingly

  this is truly the key, in every facet of life we are controled and most times we are unaware of it-

  it also depends on the age-

  parents control thier kids all the time, (WELL SOMETIMES) on your job we are control, in the hood we live we are controlled - even when we see things on tv and go out an buy them- companies don't spend billions of dollars if they felt that they could not influence what you and i buy-

  most folks including myself many times don't even realize it, but then sometimes we will catch ourselves if we are in a store and realize I don't need this so and so, i saw it on TV- i don't need it or even want it-

  typically in the context of a High control group they become attractive when one has issues in thier life- bad health , death of loved one, dirt poor, bad marriage, kids bad as hell- etc, so if ones life was going well the jw would not appeal, yet the message they offer is one that covers everyone

  i have always admitted that wt offers a great product, but they just can't deliver it, the Slick brochures are nice, but the actually products sucks

  i mean the avg person in my view who is living in poverty or just joe blow, would love to live in Hawaii

  and that is what wt offers Beach Front Property, Lakeside property and Mountain property -

  with folk spending billions of dollars to look young they even include in the Package, "Return to the days of your Youth cream"

  and food , well we know in america folks are overweight cause we Love to eat , well wt promises Grapes the size of Honey dew melons-

  alot of black bro used to joke that black folks would be the first to get kicked out of the new system

  While the white friends would be eating "Salad and fresh fruit" when the Princess would be cking on the bro,-- the black bro like "JT" would have the smell of "Fried chicken and a slab of ribs on the BBQ" coming from his house-- smile-- yep sitting under my fig tree licking my BBQ sauce

  so with such wonderful offers from wt it becomes easy to see how folks can be controled before they even realize it-

  in fact this issue of "Control" was so important to my wife and i that when we signed up for college we wanted to know, - HOW ARE FOLKS CONTROL BY OTHERS and the psychology class we took gave us an Insight that we never had-

  and
• 

  caligirl

  True, but there are usually deep seated reasons as to WHY one person is more vulnerable to the control than another. I agree with brummie that there is a large amount of manipulation involved - find out what makes a person tick and you find a way to control the person and get them to buy what you are selling. I think the sell is a bit harder when it involves being raised as a witness. If those same fears and vulnerabilities are not passed on or inculcated, then the children have a greater chance of seeing through it all and leaving. But it is still difficult, even when you recognize it all for what it is, to break free.

  For instance: I attribute my parents vulnerability to their childhoods, and the search for something secure for their future because of the chaos they both lived with. They just wanted a better life for their children and didn't realize that by recognizing what they wanted that they were already equipped to make that better more stable life a reality without the help of witnesses. But they were found at a particularly vulnerable time, and coupled with all the other experiences in their lives to that point, they fell for it, and it has allowed them to hide from painful reality for nearly 30 years. They still have not faced any of their inner demons because it is easier to wait on Jehovah to fix it all later rather than travel the often painful road to self-discovery. And that I beleive is what most people are hiding from - the pain and strength it takes to confront your issues and deal with them in a proactive manner.

  However, since my siblings and I did not have the same factors in our childhoods, we all recognized something was not right and left in our early 20's. I do not blame my parents for trying to do what they thought was right and best for their children. Isn't that what most parents do? I do hope that one day before their lives are over that they realize it for what it is and can enjoy their last years free of it all, But that is also their choice, just as it was ours to choose to leave and their choice is not mine to make any more than my choice as an adult to leave was theirs. We are fortunate that despite our departures, we continue to have a relatively close relationship with our parents and they do not shun us for our choices. But I know that is rare in the dub world and I do not take it for granted.
• 

  Reborn2002

  I possess no sympathy or mercy for Jehovah's Witnesses who have reached the age or maturity to be capable of deductive reasoning or analytical research.

  If a Jehovah's Witness is capable of devoting hundreds, if not thousands of hours a year in attending meetingss, going in field service, and researching and preparing talks to be given in the Theocratic Ministry School... all the more reason they should be able to take the time and effort to research the history and doctrine of the religion which they have chosen to dedicate so much of their time and the very way that they live. If one takes such an important step so as to decide to devote your life and beliefs to a specific set of laws... would you not wish to properly research that path before spending 50 years on it? All the more so if you are leading your children down that same path?

  With all the information readily available in previous WT literature, and on the Internet... there is NO EXCUSE, simply laziness. Willfully ignorant people prefer to be led. They prefer the herd mentality. For that, I cannot forgive them or show mercy. I agree with joelbear. These people ALLOW themselves to be controlled. Any rationally thinking person at some time or another while sitting in on one of the meetings or a convention has doubts because the WT doctrine has so many flaws it would be impossible to not notice that something isn't right. To brush it off and continue down the same ruinous path is folly, and the course a STUPID person takes.

  I stood up for principles and so have thousands of others, even if it meant losing family members. Yes, having family on the inside may be an influence on what actions you take, but it does not serve as an excuse to remain naive to the actions of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
• 

  Brummie

  hmm this turned out interesting, I agree with everyone simply because everyone is looking at it from a different perspective.

  My original point was, they dont ask permission to mind control you so you dont give permission. They come as a wolf in sheeps clothing, the disguise isnt always easy to see through, they dont turn up on your door with 100 years worth of Watchtowers for you to search through, and for the majority the internet wasnt even available back then. Many elderly are vulnerable and dont know how to use the Internet, many are kids who havent matured enough to make up their own minds or do their own research. Others are simply unsuspecting. Some of them are simply victims and some of them are dumb asses.It isnt a simple black & white answer.

  Brummie
• 

  sf

  Completely erasing someone is The Ultimate Con-trol. It feeds The Ultimate Ego. It is hard to grasp a mind that feeds off of that kind of con-troll-ism. And it is Unpredictable, ultimately. Like a sniper, who has Ultimate Con-trol in erasing his target. It is The Ultimate Thrill (adrenaline rush).

  sKally, can't-rol klass
• 

  rocketman

  Since I tend to be non-confrontational and I hate saying no to anyone, I was and still am the type that can be controlled.
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  NewYork44M

  Once you begin saying "NO" to potential victimizers, they actually (in many cases) will begin to respect you because you have begun to respect yourself. Then they will move on to an easier target.

  Excellent point Gopher! I met with an elder several weeks ago and he used numerous techniques to (1) get me to start going to meetings again, (2) study with him and (3) go on a bible study with him. Without a lot of explanation I responded, "NO. I have set my boundaries and will not extend my participation beyond what it is now." There is not much that he could say after my response. He left and I have not seen him since.
• 

  Gopher

  NewYork44M,

  Well done! What I said (about saying "no") is easier said than done. I have a victimizer in my life, and I've just gotten used to saying "no". It's taken practice and persistence, since the requests for favors that I don't want to do anymore still arrive, but now I'm not a victim any longer because I don't say YES when I mean NO,

  Rocketman,

  I'm worried for you! One book that has helped me immensely is called "Pulling Your Own Strings" by Dr. Wayne Dyer. It will help you say NO to everyone who wants to take advantage of you, and it provides a lot of concrete examples from Dr. Dyer's psychiatric practice.
• 

  topanga

  not only that but people have witnesses on their jobs who elders can use to get you fired or at job agencies or someone who knows someone can turn friends bosses and others against you.
• 

  waiting

  I went to Steve Hassan's cult seminar (great!) - and a high-up x-Moonie was a guest speaker.

  She said that sometimes she explained to outsiders just what the Moonies teach....and invariably they look at her and say "How could you BELIEVE that crap?"

  " BECAUSE I WAS IN A CULT....THAT'S WHY!!!"

  We laughed - but it's true. We don't start out buying into it. It's not based on a rational decision. "Gee, I'm going to study to belong to a cult."

  ........We're seduced into it. We're love bombed. We're brought in inch by inch....rule by rule.

  Think of it as a woman living with an abuser. If he savagely beat her on their first date, she probably would've left his sorry ass in the driveway. On an average, it takes her 7 times leaving (while he continues to beat her) before she can actually make the break -studies have been done. Some people can never break free.

  Is it all her fault? Psych. studies say No.

  Could it be some of her fault? Perhaps.

  Could she break away? Most likely.

  Will it be better for her and/or her children? Yes, in the long run. But it most likely will be hard too.

  Nothing is black/white.....not evening leaving the WTBTS.