Scottish National Party + Nazis (page 2)

BoogerMan

@ SBF - You appear to be a supporter of democracy by these statements: "attempting to deny democracy doesn’t work" and "a desperate attempt to deflect from the basic issue of democracy."

Clearly, the SNP doesn't agree with you! Having lost TWO democratic referendums, they lose the plot and try to encourage more hatred by Scots for the UK and the English themselves.
"Playing games with election results?" Your use of terminology in an attempt to deflect from a cast-iron truth does you no credit. I thought you were better than that.

I said: 62.38% of the electorate didn't vote for Scotland to leave the UK. Disprove this!!!!

Let me put it a different way - as 2 questions - to see if you still say 62.38% is wrong:

Scotland has an electorate of 4,300,000.

A total of 1,617,989 of the electorate in actuality voted to LEAVE the UK. What percentage of the electorate did that represent?

2,001,926 - and the remainder - positively DID NOT vote to leave the UK? What percentage of the electorate does that represent?

The SNP & others have been crying into their porridge ever since, will use any excuse to "justify" yet another referendum, and will continue to do so when they lose it!

notsurewheretogo

then what do you call it when the Supreme Court in another country declares that Scotland has no democratic mechanism for leaving its supposed “voluntary union” with England?

But we did have it, in 2014, we voted no and there is still no clear majority. The YES movement has never had 50% + 1. If there were consistently 60% in the polls then a Section 30 would come.

Independence is dead because there is zero credible economic plan for Scotland to prosper by leaving the union and removing billions of pounds from our economy.

The route to independence is very simple.

Persusaion.

If the SNP + Greens in the current majority of ScotGov can persuade people by running the country well, tackling key issues, change around drastic issues like the NHS, Education etc and be frugal and smart at the economical level then the majority of Scots will vote Yes.

But we have division, mismanagement, abandoning of duties and things getting worse within areas that are fully devolved.

Simply put, the Scottish people do not trust handing more power to SCotland when devolution has worsened the country.

You want independence? Then get the government to do their job, do it well, reverse the trends and come up with a credible economic plan.

Otherwise, independence will never ever be realised. The pro-indy parties in the next GE will not get 50% + 1 unless things drastically change but as the title of this thread highlights the nastiness, divisiveness, hatred that comes across from pro-indy supporters leaves a lot to be desired.

slimboyfat

And 17,410,742 voted to leave the EU out of an electorate of 46,500,001. That means 62.6% in the UK didn’t vote to leave the EU. So what’s your point?

The only ones crying are unionists when they look at this graph. They are desperately using various tricks to try and prevent inevitable independence like a modern day King Canute.

https://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-should-scotland-be-governed-five-response-categories-collapsed-to-three/

slimboyfat

notsure, if you have a look at the “what Scotland thinks” survey, linked above, you’ll see that support for independence has been steadily increasing over the past decade. It has increased from 23% in 2012 to 52% in 2021.

The UK economic model is broken and Scotland cannot afford to be part of it any longer. Brexit is a disaster, austerity has ruined our public services, neoliberalism has hollowed out industry in favour of finance, and now even the city of London is not the cash cow it was because Paris has superseded it. Westminster has resorted once again to raiding North Sea profits to keep itself afloat for a little while longer. Independence for Scotland is an economic necessity. The longer we leave it the more damage we will incur as part of this failing so-called “voluntary” union.

BoogerMan

I agree with your point 100%!

UK electorate = 46,144,009

17,411,565 of the UK electorate (37.73%) voted to leave the E.U.

The 'Leave' vote did not represent the interests or choice of the majority.

notsurewheretogo

Scotland cannot afford to be part of it any longer. Brexit is a disaster, austerity has ruined our public services

Our public services are ruined through devolution. Education and the NHS are nowhere near as bad in the UK compared to Scotland...fully devolved.

So how does removing tens of billions from our economy and not have the ability to lend on the greater shoulders of the UK in any way address that. This single point I keep making and there is not one answer from any pro-indy supporter, ever.

How does Scotland borrow? What currency do we use? How is going back to the EU any better than the UK when 60% of our trade is with the UK? How will we fund pensions when over 20% of the workforce in Scotland are civil servants? How do we fund mass infrastructure like a HMRC, DWP, Bank of Scotland, Defence, etc etc.

Support for Independence is split 50-50 and nothing has changed since 2014...if we voted again the same result would occur.

There is literally no point in voting or wanting independence if there is no credible economic plan to get us there.

A vote for independence is to make Scotland weaker, impose mass austerity that makes the Tories look like angels and impose higher tax on those that earn.

Is that really the sell here to Scotland in the midst of a cost of living crisis?

You are living in cuckoo land if you think people would vote for that. We need info, we need a plan, we need sensible economics and we need a stable and sensible government.

We have none of that thus status quo.

BoogerMan

Why are Scots still paying more for alcohol than the rest of the UK - based on the SNP's minimum unit alcohol price which has been shown to be a worthless computer model?

The extra cash doesn't go to the NHS, it is kept by the retailer! Just like the alleged "environmental charge" for bags supplied by org's like McDonald's - the businesses keep the extra cash!

And MacD's automatically give & charge everyone for bags, unless you specifically tell them 'No thanks.'

slimboyfat

Support for Independence is split 50-50 and nothing has changed since 2014...if we voted again the same result would occur.

The data show otherwise:

https://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-should-scotland-be-governed-five-response-categories-collapsed-to-three/

notsurewheretogo

It hasn't changed at all in real terms. It fluctuates and has done with a peak after the Supreme Court but that will level out again.

https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/scottish-independence-polls/

Point is there has not been a consistent more than 50% and therefore no appetite to grant a ref.

Why do you ignore all the points about how to win people over with economics, good governing, devolved issues being mismanaged etc. You realise if my points are addressed to a satisifaction then those like myself who want independence but will not ruin the future generations would actually vote yes.

Independence is easy to get...SG cannot simply produce any credible plan with real facts and figures though...until that is produced the status quo remains.

BoogerMan

@ notsurewheretogo - a close friend insisted that independence was the best thing for Scotland. I asked him how I would be better off financially and in other ways. No definitive answers - but claimed every country who gained independence was far better off.

I'd vote for an independent Scotland - if undeniable benefits were offered which overwhelmed the serious consequences it would cause, but the SNP hasn't and can't genuinely answer the huge questions which will/could threaten people's livelihoods.

Leaving a union causes serious downsides to the working classes. Brexit still isn't over - and as far as I can see, there have been no significant benefits to the UK.

Scottish National Party + Nazis

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