True Bible Doctrines Part 1 (page 2)

hooberus

I must say though,I have a hard time picturing Jesus in heaven with flesh and bones now.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossian 2:8-9 The word "dwelleth" is in the present tense. I believe that the greek word translated "bodily" always refers to physical bodies. Ephesians chapter 5 in the KJV also seems to be in the present tense.

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Ephesian 5:29-30 KJV

Jesus is still said to me "man" and the "son of man." Also I believe that he must continue to be of the seed of david according to the flesh.

When Jesus returns we will look upon a pierced body.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

Also the paragraphs by Ignatius (a pupil of the apostle John) are helpful.

DJ

Hooberus,
I have been reading through the site that you linked me to. My eyes are stinging from reading it! It's interesting stuff. Can you provide me with the web main page?? please?. I couldn't seem to get that far back from your link. Out of curiousity, were you ever a jw?

I suppose that you are right about 1Timothy. It is certainly true that it refers to past and present, yet people saw His body. I did always connect it with Moses and the burning bush somehow but I didn't think about it too much. I was always focusing on the word.."Pontenate" in the NWT because other transaltions used Sovereign. I concluded that they mean essentially the same thing so, it was a big change from the wt teachings about only the Father being sovereign. The wt managing to twist my mind from a child and only the love of the Spirit has helped and still helps me to unravel it. It has been almost 7 years for me and I still learn and unlearn everyday.

As far as the Ephesians 5:29-30 goes....my eyes nearly popped out of my head when I saw that! It is not in my NIV though. It is in my KJV. I wish it was that easy but I always question things if they are different in various translations. Nice try.. I still feel mixed about it. Maybe someday I'll get it. love dj

edited to add: I am not impying that He will return invisibly. I know that every eye will see Him. I guess I think of Him as having a spiritual body. Visible yet, inncorruptable. His same body that He had on the earth but changed. Unlike anything I have ever seen. He could have bones..I just don't know for sure and I still think it is irrelevant as it would not change a thing if He did have bones or didn't to me. Do you see what i'm saying? Am I missing something here? thanks

shiloh

I have a couple of questions about the quote from 1Timothy. I'm not well versed in this stuff so forgive me if these are dumb questions. Hey, you never get any smarter if you don't ask..yes? :-) First: If I understand correctly, the scripture says that Jesus alone has immortality. If Jesus was raised as a spirit only, would it even be right to refer to him as being immortal? Is being immortal something that would only be notable (and worth mentioning) in a physical being? Does that question make sense? Obviously God is immortal. Are the Angels? Are other spirit beings immortal? Second: Is it Jesus himself that "no man hath seen or can see ....." or is it the "Light" itself that is unapproachable and un-seeable by man? I'm assuming the light in question is the light of God in which Jesus is dwelling. The wording of the scripture isn't clear to me. Thanks! Oh and this is my first post. Hi everybody!

hooberus

Hooberus,
I have been reading through the site that you linked me to. My eyes are stinging from reading it! It's interesting stuff. Can you provide me with the web main page?? please?. I couldn't seem to get that far back from your link. Out of curiousity, were you ever a jw?

This is the main page (I think). The Church Fathers are also printed in volume sets. It is facinating to read the writings of those who were direct disciples of the apostle John. I never used to know that this information existed. Although their writings are not scripture, it is still interesting to read them, as they provide a link to the early church. http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ I was never a JW.

As far as the Ephesians 5:29-30 goes....my eyes nearly popped out of my head when I saw that! It is not in my NIV though. It is in my KJV. I wish it was that easy but I always question things if they are different in various translations. Nice try.. I still feel mixed about it. Maybe someday I'll get it. love dj
edited to add: I am not impying that He will return invisibly. I know that every eye will see Him. I guess I think of Him as having a spiritual body. Visible yet, inncorruptable. His same body that He had on the earth but changed. Unlike anything I have ever seen. He could have bones..I just don't know for sure and I still think it is irrelevant as it would not change a thing if He did have bones or didn't to me. Do you see what i'm saying? Am I missing something here? thanks

I do think that it is important that Jesus Christ is still a man with a physical body. I'll try when I get time to list a summary of points supporting this.

hooberus

Hello shiloh!, I may have to think some on your first question, but here is your second one.

Second: Is it Jesus himself that "no man hath seen or can see ....." or is it the "Light" itself that is unapproachable and un-seeable by man?

I think that the word "whom" would have to refer back to a person (Jesus Christ) rather than to the light. If it were referring to the light one would expect it to say "which no man hath seen, nor can see" "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." 2 Timothy 6:16 It might be helpful to compare I Timothy Chapter 1 with 1 Timothy Chapter 6. They both are about Jesus Christ and the parallels are astounding. 1 Timothy Chapter 1 [15] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
[16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
[17] Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy Chapter 6 [14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

DJ

Hoob,
I really appreciate the link. It is very interesting stuff. Thanks and I look forward to your later posts about the above issue. dj

hooberus

translations of
The Writings of the Fathers down to a.d. 325
The Rev. Alexander Roberts, D.D.,
and
James Donaldson, LL.D.,
EDITORS
AMERICAN REPRINT OF THE EDINBURGH EDITION
revised and chronologically arranged, with brief prefaces and occasional notes
by

The site uses the Roberts and Donaldson version of the Church Fathers. This is the most common edition used. Thus it should be a credible site. The hard volumes are available from CBD for around $100.00

DJ

My eyes thank you! I think it was the yellow background that made it hard to read...either that or I'm old.. What does CBD stand for? dj

DJ

It might be helpful to compare I Timothy Chapter 1 with 1 Timothy Chapter 6. They both are about Jesus Christ and the parallels are astounding.

Thank you my friend. It is amazing how each day it becomes harder and harder to distinguish the Father from the Son. It's not something easily seen by human eyes, only the spirit unblinds us. Being raised a jw, the most horrifying doctrine to them is the trinity. I however see that there are far too many scriptures that support it than oppose it. There are so many that I wish that i had taken the time to write them down as they were revealed to me...but I didn't and it would be an impossible undertaking to try now. I do however have one that seems to contradict it, even now. Do you care to help? thanks, dj (hint...Corinthians)

hooberus

CBD stands for "Christian Book Distributors" a large mail order firm, which has wholesale prices on reference materials and books.

I do however have one that seems to contradict it, even now. Do you care to help? thanks, dj (hint...Corinthians)

Which one?

True Bible Doctrines Part 1

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