Dates and times

by jhine 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Konagirl

  1 Thess 5:2-4 - “for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

  4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

  I equate these scriptures to those in the organization. They have already said that the “day of the Lord”, “the Lord’s day” arrived in 1914. 2 Thess 2:1-4

  They believe they are alert, prepared, and not in darkness, which we all know is a lie.

  They believe they have spiritual “peace and security”, when we know this is a façade and a snare.

  They preach another “Jesus”, one that fully accepts the lies taught by their leaders. (2 Cor 11:4)

  Lies keep people in spiritual darkness, oppressive blindness, and danger for their souls. So, when the true “day of the Lord” arrives, it is like a thief in the night for them.

  Amos 5:18 – “Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! What will the day of the LORD be for you? It will be darkness and not light.”
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  It's like my doctor telling me there are no warnings for cancer to occur, it can happen when least expected, so I interpret my lack of symptoms as a sign of cancer. ~ Pete

  Great analogy!

  
  

  
  
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  Phizzy

  What has not been mentioned in this Thread is that Paul taught, clearly in Chapter 4, that the "End" was imminent , and he believed both him ans his friends he was writing to would be "Raptured" if you like LOL, very soon, and that he and they would not die before this event, though when that would be could not be calculated.

  The phrase "We who are alive" , emeis pou imaste zontanoi , in vs 17 has been twisted by later Christians, and J.W's, right down until this day, it unequivocally shows what I said above about Paul's expectation of when the "End" would be.

  This is why a "Later Hand" wrote 2nd Thessalonians, because by that time, some 50 years almost after 1 Thess, Paul's prediction had clearly failed.
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  cofty

  Jesus preached that the 'end' would arrive within the lifetime of his disciples. For that reason they literally abandoned wives, children and businesses to follow him.

  It turned out Jesus was a false prophet. So who can blame his modern followers for doing likewise?
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  westiebilly11

  In Scouts years ago we were told to Be Prepared. For anything at anytime. Perfectly natural to be curious about events and timings etc.

  I do not think that the WT have deceived anyone. If so, why would they? What would be their motive?

  The Bible is less about dates and more about events etc.

  Jesus never mentioned any specific date for anything. He did however refer to seasons etc and events. He said Keep on the watch...ie stay awake.
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  Acluetofindtheuser

  You could also look to the 120 year proclamation in Genesis 6 right before the flood. One could conclude that God sets dates for end times because he determined a countdown to the flood. The problem here is the interpretation of a countdown only comes from the legend of the Jews. See Luis Ginzberg's Legends of the Jews. The witnesses stick to the countdown belief. This makes date setting justified with the Org.

  The two opposing interpretations of the 120 years in Genesis is a countdown to the flood or the reduction of the human lifespan. The births and deaths of the antediluvian people in Genesis compared to the generation of the post flood world did prove that the lifespans were decreased. The 120 years maximum could be a general rule and would have a margin of error but it definitely matches better than a countdown to the flood. Also of note is that the early part of Genesis records so many lifespans of people then later on the bible mentions only a few important ones. Abraham died at 175, Moses died at 120, Joshua died at 110, David died at 70. The lifespan settles down to around 70 to 80. Some today have been able to reach 122 but it is so rare.
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  Diogenesister

  Dio , yes it is Tamworth in Staffordshire are you close?

  Jan from Tam.

  No. I wish I were. Lovely place.😊

  I'm in dreary London. Mind you Dulwich is a nice part we have 5 parks all walking distance.
• 

  jhine

  Westiebilly11 l am really not sure about your assertion that the WT haven't deceived anyone. What about 1975 wasn't that deception ?

  They could not have KNOWN this because it didn't happen. You must know that faithful JWs sold houses and cars to donate the money to preaching work . Then when it didn't happen none of the money was paid back .

  You ask why would they do that , which was my question. So perhaps l have answered, in part at least , mine and your question.

  It's not just JWs who have done this of course. So maybe that is one motivation, getting money from followers.

  Jan from Tam
• 

  TonusOH

  westibilly11: If so, why would they? What would be their motive?

  There is no shortage of people who have predicted the date of the end over the past two thousand years. I think that, for most of them, the motive was a sincere desire to know. The early predictions of men like Russell and Rutherford were probably formed from a desire for it to happen, a desire to see it, and at least in part the realization that it would get people's interest piqued.

  Surely, the WTS could not ignore the growth that occurred during the late 60s and early 70s after Franz wrote about the 1975 date. By this time, bitter experience had led them to provide the occasional disclaimer and not sound quite as certain as the early leadership. And if the words used just so happen to mislead people into staying, well... those increases sure did look good.
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  Vanderhoven7

  1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, before the close of the century

  "Given that over the years people have tried to work out a date for the end what is the point of that? "

  The Faithful Slave has always tried to prove Jesus a liar.