American Healthcare: How your system works

by Diogenesister 100 Replies latest social current

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Also the NHS doesn't spend a fortune on pen pushers in offices calculating bills - sorry, but it does.

    I worked in the NHS, as a porter.

    We used to have a saying: 'too many chiefs, not enough Indians'. I think it's obvious what it means.

    The NHS is top-heavy, with too many managers, too many HR staff, too much bureaucracy, and not enough cleaners, porters, healthcare assistants, or kidney dialysis machines.

    The NHS also wastes lots of money on shitty, non-jobs such as 'Diversity Coordinators', etc.

    Plus the NHS is in hock to trans activists (Stonewall and other groups declare organisations 'trans friendly' - for an annual fee, or course). Its latest advice to staff is not to say 'biologically male/female'. <---- absolutely ridiculous.

    Billions of money per year are shoveled into the NHS but it continually pleads poverty.

    Conclusion: the NHS is badly run and wasteful of tax-payers' money.

    I know whereof I speak in this instance.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    So where is the insulin for NHS then? It can’t get the product because the product isn’t being produced because socialized government is pushing companies out of the market.

    Recent reports on the NHS show that it is EXTREMELY top-heavy with bureaucracy and you still get a bill.

    Cancer treatment is the definition of elective surgery. Oncology is in most cases not part of emergency medicine, so it is by definition elective medicine.

    Much of what you have said is socialist propaganda, unless you are extremely irresponsible, you don’t go bankrupt over medical treatment. And you can do that in the UK as well as in the US.

    Medical bills bankruptcy statistics from 2005 show that 8.2% of those that went bankrupt in the UK listed illness or an accident as the reason and 15% in Canada.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    Note that I’ve put references, video documentaries and numbers instead of baseless accusations, I’ve also actually lived on both continents extensively and currently have elderly parents on both sides of the pond going through roughly the same problems… I know the problems on both sides, I’m not delusional, but the US is overall better for the price you pay.

    And on another note, you don’t lose your house in bankruptcy in the US, unlike other countries that basically the government repossesses your house for not paying the government for “free” health care. Most bankruptcies will protect your primary property and are just allowing you to restructure payments. Chapter 7 you will lose property but not your (reasonable) primary residence, your (reasonable) car, your insurance, your retirement etc are all protected. Anyone saying they lost their house in a bankruptcy, that means they were living in a mansion and a judge figured they lived beyond their means and had to downsize, they can generally keep most of the equity to pay for a new more reasonable house.

  • jhine

    LUHE , l agree that the NHS can be run much more efficiently, but I'm not sure that is the government's ( any government's) fault .

    Which governments repossess your house for not paying for your " free " healthcare? Certainly not in the UK .

    I don't know where the NHS gets it's insulin but it does get it because thousands of diabetics receive it . Some may have to a prescription charge , but that is a lot less than in America. My prescriptions are free because of my age so I am not sure about the exact cost , around a tenner l think . Pensioners, children and those on certain benefits get it free .

    What bills do people get in the UK ? Believe me I've had chemotherapy and surgery, including reconstructive surgery , my husband and son had extensive treatment for cancer, quickly and with no charge .

    I have never heard of anyone being charged for NHS healthcare and at my age l know plenty of folk who are having treatment for health problems.

    I'm not quoting socialist propaganda, it's my and my family and my friends' own experiences after 67 years of living with the NHS .

    Jan from Tam

  • Rattigan350

    The problem with universal health care is that there is no money in it or for it.

    So it runs slowly.

    And it is rife for abuse. If anyone can go in and get free healthcare, what reason would they have to take care of themselves?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Hi Jan,

    I think you and me are coming at this issue from different perspectives.

    Re the NHS and how it's run - no, it's not any UK government's fault. The fault lies with the NHS bigwigs and their often poor financial decisions. So, yeah, the NHS should be run more efficiently, with a special emphasis on sensible spending.

    Re the US healthcare system as it currently is, yes, it's bad that someone's house can be repossessed because of hospital bills.

    And we already know that large swathes of the US electorate don't want to pay for others' health care bills.

    So, what's the solution?

    Well, I originally said let each state decide. This would still inconvenience some people - image being dirt-poor and stuck in a conservative state such as Texas. You can't afford much in the way of healthcare and you can't afford to up sticks to somewhere like Cali or New York. So, how about rich people start a healthcare charity that could meet the bills of America's poorest? America's super-rich like nothing more than saying they care for poor people. This would be a great chance for them to show that. Other people - middle-income earners and basic income earners - who also care about the poor could also put money in the pot.

    And, obviously, those who don't want to pay for others' healthcare don't have to.

    ^^^ This could work, couldn't it?

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    The NHS is part of the government, so how can it not be the government's fault? The mental logistics to come to the conclusion that the NHS is not at fault for mismanagement of the NHS is mindboggling.

    Which governments repossess your house for not paying for your " free " healthcare

    Try not paying your UK medical bills (or taxes). Per the NHS website, only primary care is 'free' in the UK, unless you are a visitor or immigrant, then it is not, for the non-primary care, you pay out of pocket and then NHS can levy any costs as debt. As I showed with my statistics earlier, it's possible to get bankrupted from medical costs in the UK just as well.

    Outpatient prescription drugs are subject to a copayment of GBP 8.80 per prescription (very similar to US co-pays FYI). NHS dentistry services are subject to copayments of up to GBP 256.50 (which is very hefty, given we in the US pay (without insurance) ~$50-75 to see a dentist). For eye glasses and contacts NHS gives vouchers, the difference is paid out of pocket (in the US you can get an eye exam and 2 pairs of glasses or 1 year worth of contacts for $65 without insurance). So you definitely pay something out of pocket, if you don't pay that, you owe money, you go bankrupt, you can lose all your property because you can always 'fall back' on government housing (which is just as excellent and available as your healthcare system).


    IN THE US, you cannot get your primary house repossessed in bankruptcy. You can be forced to downsize if you live beyond your means, you can have a secondary home repossessed, but a 'regular' person will not lose their car, the equity for a reasonably sized house or most of their possessions in any bankruptcy proceeding.

    What you said is already how it is, people just continue to believe the ongoing droning of wannabe communists that somehow the government should own all the means of production, take your possessions and run your life for you.

    In New York, there is practically speaking Universal Health Care for anyone that is "poor" (relatively speaking, in the UK you would find that upper limit to be "upper middle class") ran by the local state in addition to federal programs, they also set up sanctuary cities for extreme medical procedures, immigrants etc. In Texas there is less of that (except perhaps for Austin), they have the federal system and a smaller state system. Where are people moving to, where are people less likely to default due to medical debts, which state has the better and lower cost medical systems, the answer is obvious, NYS lost $13B in tax revenues last year because people moved away. If people that got sick were flocking to NY or CA, it would be obvious, except most of the elderly flee to Florida, Texas and the Carolinas.

  • Rivergang

    "The point of modern propaganda is to annihilate the truth, to exhaust the person so they give up trying to find it."

    Gary Kasparov

    A role which social media plays very well!

  • LoveUniHateExams

    The NHS is part of the government, so how can it not be the government's fault? - the government gives taxpayers' money to the NHS, but the government doesn't decide where that money is spent. NHS higher-ups decide that.

    So, if your local hospital has three or four Diversity Tsars and Outreach Coordinators but not enough kidney dialysis machines, then that's on the NHS higher-ups. It's their fault.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @LoveUni: That's like saying that the government in the US is not responsible for what the FBI or NIH does because it just gives money to the agency and it has its own bosses. Or if I own a company and hire a manager, it ceases to be my responsibility when someone down the chain screws up. Yes, it may be a manager's fault, it may be someone way down the line, but the ownership of those mistakes and liability rests with those that pay those people, if there aren't enough kidney dialysis machines but there is a diversity tsar, the government should decide NHS cannot spend the money on diversity tsars until it has improved all services to the same level as a private clinic.

    Per Wikipedia:

    NHS is controlled by the UK government through the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC), which takes political responsibility for the service.

    Per the UK government's website:

    NHS England is an executive non-departmental public body which by definition is organisations that have a role in the process of national government and are accountable to the public through Parliament.

    If you control the purse strings, you control the agency, the money (should) come with ties to performance.

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