Have You Ever Experienced God?
First of all, I'd just like to make it clear that I do not believe in "god". Whatever anger I have is not directed towards a fictional creature. My impatience is towards people who believe that they for whatever reason have been specifically blessed while others have not. You said:
I don’t know why small children have to suffer. There is evil in this world. I don’t know why God created satan knowing what havoc he would create.
And even though you can't answer these questions, you still love "god" because he's blessed YOU. Had he not blessed YOU, then you'd probably hate him. Have you ever thought that you have been able to get through hardships because you are a strong person? Isn't it possible to get through things on your own without aid from a supernatural force? Of course!
understand you have a wonderful husband. Cherish that. Realize that not everybody has that.
Trust me, I do cherish it. I sometimes think that I don't deserve him. But you know what? It is through my perserverence, and his patience that have kept us together, not "god's" blessing. I realize that everyone doesn't have what I have, but everyone DESERVES it. I think it would be rather unfair of "god" to bless some marriages, and not others, don't you?
evil exists. Where does that evil come from?
Evil exists because your "god" allows it, right? Well "god" created all things so it must've come from him.
Speaking about acts of "god":
These are horrible tragedies, and I don’t know why.
And you're okay with that? I'm not. If "god" is around couldn't he at least settle down the Earth? Floods, earthquakes, etc. could be stopped by "god" but he choose to let them take more lives. HOW LOVING?
Do you think that God created all diseases like cancer, aids, multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, sickle cell etc. to torture us, because we deserved it?
Well, no, because "god" doesn't exist. Some disease are due to mutations, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but why did "god" allow these mutations? I mean people are born with some of these, is it fair to have children born this way while others such as yourself have near perfect babies at birth? HOW LOVING?
We all always blame others for destroying our lives, God, yes the JW org., our families (me included), the Government, etc. But what do we personally do to make it a bit better place for us, and for those around us.
Not true! I own all of my bad decisions. I don't blame anyone for things that I did wrong. I think that some people like to give credit to "god" when it is actually them that deserves the praise for their accomplishments.
You did not address my analogy in the way that I wanted. Look at the analogy without using "god" as the father figure and answer the question as if everyone were human, not supernatural.
I don’t think God left us, we left Him.
Are we as humans judged collectively or individually? If we are judged individually, how dare you say "we" left him? I didn't leave "god" when I was 7, but it was obvious that no one was protecting me. The ones that sinned (Adam, Eve, Satan) deserve punishment, not me; and definitely not babies that die two days after birth, or people that are born into a life consumed with pain and grief. How have they left "god".
There is no value in believing in God? So then what or who do we turn to? Ourselves, our friends, no-one?
-Sure there are values. For one thing you can attribute all good things to being blessed by "god" and all bad things are due to evil. It definitely lightens the load of self-responsibility.
-Who do we turn to? You're kidding right? For one thing, believe in yourself and your own power. Next anyone you are close to, husband, child, etc. Lastly, strangers can help such as doctors, therapists. Why can't people see that their fellow humans have good in them and are able to help. "God" often doesn't seem to be around when you need him.
Yes what about NOW. What is happening in your life right now that is good. Yes your cousin abused you. I’m not belittling the grief you went through when you were a child, but this is not who you are now. I understand that you have a wonderful husband? That’s more than a lot of us have.
Yes, life is good now and it's not because of "god". It's because I won't 1) allow my life to be dictated by someone that never helped me out as a child and 2) I believe in myself.
can’t believe that a God that has created so many wonderful things, would even want to create evil, for me it wouldn’t make sense.
So you're basically saying there is no way to know for sure. God could be responsible for evil and you'll never really know. Maybe he created evil to keep the population low.
I wish God would protect small children, but how would that work; for how long do we protect them? Whom do we protect and whom don’t we protect.
How would "god" protect children? I don't know, he's all knowing, surely he could come up with something dontcha think? For how long?! FOREVER!!!
This is why I don't believe that there is someone who has the power to stop these things but doesn't. It is unfathomable to believe that an all powerful being doesn't protect his children.
When my kids do something wrong should I not punish them or should I just let them get away with things.
Punish them! Who was "god" punishing when I was being abused by my cousin?
As for your analogy, there are flaws. For example:
All "god" want is?:
All he asked in return was for them to love him and their siblings, but he wanted his children to give it freely; what was in their hearts.
God asks for way more than that! You've never stated if you believe in the Bible but if you do then sure this statement was made in jest. I could lay down about a hundred specific requirements that "god" has other than to love him and his siblings.
This statement basically means that these "siblings" had no free will:
Some chose to do what ever they wanted[. . . .] They could do it on their own, nobody would tell them what to do. They got into a lot of trouble,
Why did the children that chose to leave their father get into trouble? Weren't some of them good, honest people who wanted to do things on their own? Why did their father have to be in their live in order to be successful? This isn't fair. It shows that the father deliberately doomed anyone who didn't was to be a part of his city. This isn't fair at all. Can't they love him living in the city's suburbs?
I don’t believe in hell-if there is, I think it’s a separation from God, but we chose that.
We did? I don't remember casting my vote!
Someone here posts: Have You Ever Experienced an Orgasm?
Someone else replies: I've never had one so it couldn't possible exist.
Someone here posts: Have You Ever Experienced Cancer?
Someone else replies: I've never had cancer so it couldn't possible exist.
No one says this because there is absolute proof of cancer. The same is true of orgasms. No absolute proof of "god" though.
I don’t know where to start. I do sense a deep seated anger from you. Am I wrong? I mentioned that I feel blessed (but not always), but not am blessed. There is a big difference. I have never mentioned that I felt more special or deserved to be blessed more than anyone else. As for taking responsibility for your own choices, I repeatedly stated that fact. I really think you need to go over my posts again. I’m not imposing my views onto someone else; I’m only relating my own experiences, yet you seem threatened by that. If someone mentions something positive like "holding a new born baby" it seems to make you angry. (every good experience that a person feels and shares with someone else is a selfish act?) Should we keep our good experiences to ourselves in case it may hurt someone else? Should I be upset with you because you stated that you had a good relationship with your husband and I don't? Many people post here: christians, atheists, heterosexuals, homosexuals: we all have different viewpoints. I’ve never told anyone that they were wrong, but can’t you give me that common curtesy? You seem to want to invalidate other peoples opinion contrary to your own. (I already had enough of my dad and husband thinking that I should feel or think their way) Is it a hold over from the JW org? I’m not sure I want to exert that much energy trying to go over it all. (there’s so much) I will mention the post about the orgasm. It was just a joke, yet you had to turn it into something negative by replacing it with cancer. You stated that there is proof of cancer and orgasms, but not of God. In the past could we prove the existence of cancer or orgasms, or did we just see the effects it had on people? Nowadays we can through science prove it’s existence. Before you couldn’t always see the existence of cancer; only if it was on the outside or if someone died (but then could they always be sure of what the person died of?) Only later could we find out if it was cancer or not. Also with orgasms we can now see through ultra-sounds the proof, before you could only see the effects it had on the body. Who’s to say that in the future we can’t scientifically prove that God exists. For us that believe we can see the efffects of the existence of God. Like they say about the wind, you can’t see it, but you know it’s there. You see the effects. And no I’m not angry, and yes I still believe. Take care
Like they say about the wind, you can’t see it, but you know it’s there.
I can certainly appreciate the religous reponses on this thread, seeing how a friend of mine had a God experience himself. I believe him, for the reason that he is so straitlaced.
Still, wind can be physically felt and tested. God, or the effects of God, cannot be physically tested. You must first believe in God to believe that he created everything, hence the 'effects' of God. See what I mean? All of the 'proof' of God must first stem from a belief in Him or Her in the first place.
Still, I can't help but believe that some religous people I've talked to have experienced something supernatural. Sometimes, it shows even on their face, demeanor. Who know what it is?
I say let people interperet their own lives, and if they want to call something God, or a result of God, then let it make them happy.
I wish that you had answered my questions, but oh well. Btw, don't get too worked up. I've been told that I write like I'm angry, even if I am not. I don't dislike you, and I am glad that you are content in your beliefs. You attribute good things as "god's" blessing and I attribute them to human power. I do want to know one thing though:
If "god" is all-knowing and all-powerful isn't it possible for him and all of his infinite wisdom to come up with something to please us all? I mean, there is nothing that he can't do right? Then why can't he keep his creation happy?
I can't help but believe that some religous people I've talked to have experienced something supernatural. . it shows even on their face
Have you ever been lied to and thought whole-heartedly that what you heard was true? Could you see that truth on their face?
Have you ever been lied to and thought whole-heartedly that what you heard was true? Could you see that truth on their face?
Definitely, and I agree with you. Check out my post again. I personally think that 99% of claims are hogwash, just people who want to believe in something bigger than them that takes care of them. Still, after my friends 'God' experience, which he still talks about about four years later, really changed him, whether it was real or not.
I first thought that it was him just having a waking delusion, and maybe the change in him was his own brain working against the various sicknesses he had.
But, after it, he was a changed person. He didn't whine anymore, he got stronger by degrees, and the mental illness that had plauged him for so long had essentially dissappeared. I'm a firm non-believer, but I keep my mind open. Anythings possible I suppose.
No need to reread your post. I just wondered what you'd say.
Hi Stinky Pantz: I think that this will be my last post regarding this topic. It seems you wanted some answer from me. I tried.
I’m sure that since time began people have contemplated what life would be like if there was no such thing as sin. Can you think of a way that this could work out? You say that I don’t answer your questions, but neither do you.
So I’ll try to figure something out; bear with me, this is coming as I’m typing this: I’m sure that many smart people have written extensively about this very subject. Why are you asking me?
Here goes, with the premise that God exists.
He creates the universe, everything is perfect. He creates animals, everything is perfect. He creates people, everything is perfect. (It sounds like a Tupperware family from the Twilight Zone ). With the premise that happiness is a choice, will we work; a lot of people don’t like to work; so maybe some people will work, while others play; won’t there be resentment? Will we help each other? If we don’t help another person, the person might become sad. So then we have to eliminate choices: we don’t want anybody sad. We do things automatically without choices, then everybody will be happy? I know this is so simplistic, but I just don’t see how this will work. I don’t think it’s as simple as taking away sin, and all would work perfectly, and we would be happy; we truly wouldn’t be living, we’d be programmed. To be happy you make a choice. It’s all about choices. What are you asking Stinky Pantz; that you want absolutely no sin? It sounds on the surface real nice but could it realistically work? How do you know if someone truly loves you, or you are just programmed to do good and say I love you. But maybe for many people that’s not really important; if we would all just get along, everything's harmonious, that would be good.
If it’s not sin you want to get rid of, but want all children be protected; I asked in another post, for how long would you provide protection (5 yrs, 12yrs, 18yrs) You said forever. Do you mean till they pass on in old age?
If it was proven safe and it was available to us would anyone ever consider that everybody have a lobotomy that could take out the aggressive gene? (they would then also have to do all the animals, or we wouldn’t survive very long). I wonder if that could be that far fetched down the road. What would happen to our psyche? Would we adjust in time and live happily ever after in this harmonious, dream world?
Like I said I don’t have the answers; that’s pretty obvious. I’m just trying to figure out how it could work. I just have to trust God; that He just know better than me. I can’t see the whole picture, just a very, very small piece. Can anyone help me out here? I’m sure Stinky Pantz, you could come up with something, but I figure somewhere down the line it falls apart.
The way I see it we’re kind of tested here on earth, to see what we are made of. I know that sounds callous, but again we do make choices. ( I know a young child doesn't make the choice to be abused) What would you do with the Saddam Hussein’s, Hitler of this world? They made horrible choices.
Like I said before, with or without God, the state of the world doesn’t change, we have suffering with or without Him.
As I’m sure you can tell from my post, I’m really tired so I’ll stop before my post gets any more ridiculous and incoherent.