The Truth about the Truth

by Iamallcool 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Iamallcool
    If JW wants to know the truth about the truth, what will you talk about first?
  • waton

    I would talk about the reason she wants to know the truth. --more about what truth? the wt "truth"?

  • punkofnice

    I probably wouldn't offer much. I'd just tell them to do their own research.

    Of course, it depends on who, what, why and where..and all that jazz.

  • Ding

    You won't be successful with a one size fits all approach.

    Things that were big to me might not affect them at all.

    Things that I didn't care about might be what troubles them the most.

    So I'd start out by letting let their questions and concerns establish the agenda.

    Occasionally it might be necessary to try to expand their area of inquiry, but this should be done in bite sizes rather than by trying to lay everything on them at once.

  • truth_b_known

    Would you play a life changing game with someone who gets to move the goal posts whenever they like and doesn't even acknowledge they moved the goal posts? In fact, to even have thoughts that they moved the goal posts is looked down on and to say it is brings punishment. Is that a game you would willingly play?

    This is what is known as a double bind. Double bind - a psychological predicament in which a person receives from a single source conflicting messages that allow no appropriate response to be made. "I love you and I am doing this for your own good," says the father to his child as he beats the child with his belt.

    • Watchtower rule #1 - We have the truth so we are always right.
    • Watchtower rule #2 - You cannot doubt us or vocalize any doubts.

    First Watchtower, in print - Organ transplants are a conscious matter. Get one or don't. It's up to you.

    Second Watchtower, in print - Organ transplants are cannibalism making them wrong. Don't do it.

    Third Watchtower, in print - Organ transplants are a conscious matter. Get one or don't. It's up to you.

    If you disagreed with Watchtower #1 when it was published you would be shunned as an apostate. Even if you were saying organ transplants are cannibalism. The claim would be "You are going ahead of the organization."

    If you disagreed with the later Watchtower #2 when it was published the same as above would apply.

    Repeat when later Watchtower #3 was published.

    Here we have a verified "flip-flip" from the Watchtower. Which is truth? Careful! It's a trick question. Because in the eyes of the Watchtower it is all truth and you better publicly agree with them or else!

    So, what would I talk about first? That it is not religion about "truth" or even has "the truth," but rather it is all about unquestioning loyal obedience to a man-made organization. It doesn't matter what they teach that is important to them. All that matters is you do what the organization says without doubt or question.

    Stephen Lett recent said in a talk that Jehovah gives us the gift of faith and Satan gives us doubt. The ability to doubt is ingrained in us as humans. It is how we are made (if you believe in creation). Lett said when the snake posed the question to Eve she doubted Jehovah. If Eve had not eaten the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge would she have not doubted the snake and thereby proving that doubt is a gift from Jehovah?

  • DesirousOfChange

    Deut 18:18-22

    18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

    21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.






    JW's have failed in getting even ONE prediction correct.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

  • EverApostate

    I would ask them:

    Do you really know Watchtowers history ? 1975 fiasco, ban on vaccination and organ transplants. How many died refusing blood fractions ?

    Do you 100% beleive what the WT teaches you ?

    Of coursse I would only ask these to people < 60 years of age. Dont want to collapse the feeling of eldery and send them down a depression lane.

  • OnTheWayOut

    People have to be ready to listen. I would try discussing "the generation" that will not pass away and start with saying, "Do you really accept the 'overlapping generation' ?"

    For decades, the 'generation' was people old enough to understand what happened in 1914, so they would at least have had to have been older children. When the time was about to expire, the 'generation' was tweaked to be anyone born by 1914 and they pretended it was always that way. When the time was getting close to expiration in 1995, they released it to an unknown variable. When the members didn't see enough urgency in that, they restored the 'generation' to a connection with 1914 and created the 'overlapping generation.' Can you explain that? (That 'overlapping generation' includes the life span of people that knew people born prior to 1914. They indicate the first part would be people old enough to understand things in 1914, and the second part (overlap) would include people who significantly knew that first part, but we all know it will be stretched to say the first part had to be born by 1914 and the overlap could have barely lived at the same time.)

    I doubt many would let me say any of that without running away or interrupting constantly.

  • waton

    If the core of the argument is the generation, "truth" would boil down to Jesus' words , so:

    It is a generation that will pass away ! just "--not until all -- has -- happened." therefore,

    it must be a generation that survives Armageddon. but then dies.

    according to wt doctrine: that are those who become wicked after Armageddon, in the new system, perhaps during the post - millenium rebellion.

    the overlap takes wt to 2075. the 'death after Armageddon' that Mathew's writings require: 1000 years into the future: 3075.

  • Longlivetherenegades

    Since they agree that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. My first question will be..

    1. Is their any difference or similarity between the truth in John 14 :6 and the truth the organization(WTBTS) propagate below....

    No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27

    NOTE: Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

    2. Is there any difference or similarity between the truth captured in John 3:16 and the truth they(WTBTS) teach as captured below......

    for Jehovah so love the WORLD in 1914 and by extension 1919 that he he provided his only VISIBLE organisation on earth that whosoever believe and trust the errors/mistakes and imperfect spiritual food (WatchTower February 2017) from the Faithful and discreet slave will not perish but survive Armageddon and gain everlasting life.......... John 3:16.

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