Is there really a Bible rule against sex without marriage?

by Halcon 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    I vaguely remember a situation many years ago in a country where divorce was not allowed. A JW couple split up and one of them went and lived with someone else and was disfellowshipped. The innocent party could not get a divorce in order to remarry according to the law but was free to marry according to WT dogma.

    The outcome was that the innocent party was told they could live with the new love without being disfellowshipped but would need to accept any negative feedback from people in the area.

    Someone may remember this case and fill in some more details and the country involved.

    George

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    Ancient rules around sex essentially evolved to protect human offspring, whether in patriarchal or (the admittedly few) matriarchal societies. Because human children require extended periods of devoted care in order to thrive. Both mother and child are vulnerable during this period, both from predation (animal & human) and from lack of resources. Since the mother has to spend so much time caring/nursing the infant it is difficult for her to meet her own nutritional needs without help. Example: most mammal babies can walk soon or even immediately after birth. Human babies can take up to two years to do so.

    This is why our family structures developed - with marriage at its centre. Even in modern times, with social welfare protections in place, a male who deserts his offspring faces censure by the community.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    (Porneia) fornication is not defined as hetero-sex between a single man and woman in love. Certain Pauline comments have been interpreted as such, but it is not explicit.

    Basically because passages like 1 Cor 7:

    Nevertheless, to avoid porneia, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    lend to that interpretation. However, a careful reading only says that without an outlet for sexual desire, porneia is a greater temptation. It does not define porneia in this passage.

    Further, the author's argument is hard to follow, as they suggest that unlike other "sins" poneia involves a person's sinning against their own bodies. 1 Cor 6

    12 I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]18 Flee from porneia. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever does porneia, sins against their own body.


    His argument as I said is hard to follow. He is at one hand saying Christians have a right to do things but there is something ritualistically, sacramentally inappropriate about porneia. He lifts the "one flesh" from Genesis and literalizes it as sexual coupling. He then uses it metaphorically as union of spirit with Christ. It adds an odd sexual element to the Christian union with Christ. It also doesn't explain how a married Christian who has sex with their partner isn't also "cheating" on Christ as it were. It's not a good argument. He also seems to specify prostitution as porneia.

    As a side note, from the standpoint of the unique WT interpretation of these passages, the objection ought not apply to "Other Sheep" who do not share in the death and body of Christ.

    I have resisted in this instance saying "Paul" wrote this or that because many of these sections in 1Cor show evidence of at least 2 layers of interpolation. One very early, one about a century later. That is another huge topic.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I have trouble with quotations, for some reason I'm unable to resume typing after one without it all being in the quotation.

  • Athanasius
    Athanasius

    George, I remember the case you are referring to. I think it was in a Watchtower Study article back in the 1960s.

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    Abraham claimed he was God's best buddy...and God spoke to him personally. He had multiple sexual partners..ditto for David, and many other "faithful" friends of God

    This is a good point. Very CLEARLY God had no issue with this. Do the Greek scriptures new testament ever explain why eventually it should just be one wife/one woman only? Or did customs just change?

    In the San Francisco area we had some bisexual/gay JWs men in the 60s whose wives WTB&Ts said were not free to divorce and then remarry. Why? Because Watchtower said adultery required vaginal intercourse with a woman...anal and oral intercourse did not constitute adultery!!!

    This left me speechless.... however, this also confirms that the concept of porneia is, unsurprisingly, open to interpretation.

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    (Porneia) fornication is not defined as hetero-sex between a single man and woman in love. Certain Pauline comments have been interpreted as such, but it is not explicit

    Peacefulpete

    That quote above was very interesting. At first glance the verses seem pretty straightforward and quite clear. However the author's assessment once again confirms they are not. It's almost impossible to read these verses as purely related to spiritual (non physical) things. Yet the opposite is also true, you can't just assume it's all physical. And when Paul does in fact finally get specific, he points to sex with a prostitute. Fine. But then what about a non prostitute?

  • BrightestLight
    BrightestLight

    I feel that these terms porneia and fornicatrix refer to prostitution. It means to come under the “arches”. That’s where the prostitutes hung out and you could find them. Don’t bash me, but I feel it was written more about women selling the goodies. Men always had multiple wives and concubines. Only in the qualifications for elders does it possibly say husband of one wife. I only say possibly because they translate it to read in a manner suitable to them. So more than one woman is ok if wifey is good with it and you can afford it.

    Side note: Speaking of arches…this is also why I feel USA is Babylon the Great, the great harlot, because of what is the Gateway to the Western culture in St. Louis, Missouri “The Arch” and the Washington Monument “erected” in DC.

  • Balaamsass2
    Balaamsass2

    Well, in the Christian Greek scriptures, it specifies "Servants were to be husbands of only one wife". So.... if you have multiple wives...no position for you. :)

    So if the Elders want to appoint someone, it is a no-go if he is a fundamental Morman I guess.....

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    Baalamasass2 - “The Bible does condemn ‘fornication’ multiple times.”

    Again, property

    …i.e. the words that were translated as “fornication” were more than likely referring to the vandalism and/or theft of another man’s possession(s).

    But since we’re on the subject…

    …would that be the same Bible that clearly endorses the ownership of human beings as property (and religious intolerance, and genocide) multiple times?

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