Circumcision....Perfect Adam....Uncircumcised....1st century Christians...circumcision ont required

by blondie 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    First off, Judaism doesn't teach that Adam was perfect. It also doesn't teach that he lost his perfection. Neither situations occur at Eden in the narrative of Genesis according to Jewish exegesis.

    Judaism does not teach that there was a fall from grace at Eden either and that death is a punishment for sin. These ideas and those of Original Sin being passed on from Adam are originally from Christianity. Death is actually seen by Jews as natural, and even as a type of reward of well-earned rest.--Genesis 15:15; 29:8; 49:29, etc.

    Judaism acknowledges that circumcision did not exclusively originate with God and Abraham. It was the custom of the Semitic and Egyptian people that we descended from, and the narrative in Torah is likely linking an already-adopted practice of the Hebrews into its storytelling of the Abrahamic covenant.

    Originally it was connected with marriage, performed as a rite of passage at the age of puberty, upon which the boy received a new name and, after healing, was considered purified for the marriage act.

    Remnants of this practice are seen in the account of Moses' neglect to circumcise Gershom and Zipporah performing the rite in connection with a renaming ceremony.--Exodus 4:25-26.

    The Jewish Encyclopedia adds:

    The ancient Hebrews followed the more primitive custom of undergoing circumcision at the age of puberty, the circumcision of young warriors at that age signifying the consecration of their manhood to their task as men of the covenant battling against the uncircumcised inhabitants...After the settlement of the Israelites in Palestine, the rite was transferred to the eighth day after birth. In fixing the time of the initiatory rite at an age when its severity would be least felt, the Mosaic law shows its superiority over the older custom.

    So it was not a health issue or even something originally ordained directly from God to the Jews. It was a rite we Jews inherited from our heathen days and later ascribed to our covenants with YHVH.

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    Blondie: Since culturally, many people keep their penis under wraps, who would see if a man had a foreskin or not, to be stumbled if they didn't?

    Best comment!

  • waton
    waton

    To have fulfilled the law Jesus must have been circumcised, Both he and Adam (during his "perfect" period) seemed to have had a remarkable restraint and reluctance to expose the member to use.so. Is that a mark of perfection?

    Given the choice, choose circumcision, the freedom to grow.

    exebitionism among early Christians? , Timothy must have been proud of his new "fresh air" appearance so as not to stumble the jews? show and tell?

  • Saethydd
    Saethydd
    In my twenty-one years I've never any direction one or the other from the Watchtower on the matter of modern circumcision. All I know about it is that if my were supposed to have me circumsized they definitely didn't follow that particular standard.
  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Q. What did the leper say to the prostitute?

    A. Keep the tip.


  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    My question is: why would Saul tell (that little f**king weasel) David that 100 foreskins was the price for his daughter? Everyone has to know that David did not circumcise 100 or 200 men. he slew them and cut of their male member! God's "chosen people" were a bunch of sick bastards and sexual perverts! Praise jah all you people!

    just saying!

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    David kicked posteriors and took prepuces, didn't he?

    Sylvia

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    In case people are wondering how a Jewish Bris is performed ........

    The main element of a bris–also called a brit milah–is the removal of the foreskin from an eight-day-old baby boy’s penis. But a bris is actually more than just a snip; it is a ceremony that includes various traditions, rituals, and prayers. Here’s a rundown of the main events.

    Welcoming the Baby

    Before the ceremony, the baby is usually placed on a large pillow and carried into the room where the circumcision will take place. In some families and communities it is considered a great honor to carry a baby to his bris, and parents choose someone (or more than one person) special in their lives for this job.

    The baby is handed to the sandek, which is the name given to the person who holds the baby during the circumcision. This is often one of the baby’s grandfathers, but parents can also choose to honor other people with the role.

    When the baby arrives, the mohel–a professional specially trained in circumcision–welcomes him with the words: Baruch Ha-Ba. This means “blessed is the one who has arrived.”

    The Procedure

    Before the circumcision, the mohel recites a blessing acknowledging that the mitzvah (commandment) of circumcision is about to be fulfilled.

    The mohel uses a shield to protect the penis and to guide the knife to make sure only the foreskin is cut. There are different kinds of shields, some tighter than others. Some mohalim (plural for mohel) use a tighter shield that functions like a clamp, which they believe eases the baby’s pain. Jewish legal authorities debate the permissibility of these different shields. The general concern is the act of circumcision must immediately draw blood; some tight shields delay blood flow.

    Similarly, Jewish legal authorities debate the use of local anesthetic. Mohalim who do not use anesthetic give the baby sugar water or wine as a mild form of sedation. When choosing a mohel, it is worthwhile to ask what his policies are regarding clamps and anesthetic.

    The actual circumcision consists of three separate acts. First, the mohel uses a special knife to remove the baby’s foreskin. Then the mohel tears off and folds back the mucous membrane to expose the glans. The final stage is called metzitzah, which means suctioning the blood from the wound.

    This last stage is the most controversial. In the time of the Talmud, the mohel would suction the penis by mouth, actually sucking the blood from the wound. The rabbis in the Talmud believed that this kind of suctioning was a hygienic measure.

    Today we know that suction by mouth is not hygienic; germs can be transmitted from the mohel to the baby and from the baby to the mohel. Some contemporary mohalim use an oral suction tube so that their mouth does not come into direct contact with the baby’s penis. Many others consider the use of gauze as an adequate means for metzitzah.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Appreciate that, Finkel.

    The sense of community and tradition is very powerful.

    Are you Jewish?

    Sylvia

  • blondie
    blondie

    Well, Saethydd, in my 60 plus years, it is one of the topics that are danced around. Nothing forbidding beards in the congregation on men........but..........it is "suggested" by the GB and enforced by their representatives.

    It is harder to know if a man is circumcised in the congregation than if he has a beard on his face....

    But many brothers let cultural beliefs encourage jws to get their boys circumcised at birth as it is the custom...saying that they might stumble non-jw family members or others close enough to know if they didn't have it done. Insisting that grown men get circumcised is a painful proposition and hopefully, few except their wives or guys in the shower after gym will see if they are or not.

    The WTS has also suggested that it is a health issue. I am looking for some quotes, but if anyone else has them handy please send them to me or post them here.

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